SUMMARY KEYWORDS
food, eat, cooking, permaculture, growing, process, surfing, soil, plants, podcast, feel, industrial agriculture, system, good, mindful, connected, super, retreat, create, body
SPEAKERS
Martin O'Toole, Evan Rilling, Julia Malcolmson
Martin O'Toole 00:28
Hello, Jules.
Julia Malcolmson 00:30
Hello my love season
Martin O'Toole 00:31
It's season two.
Julia Malcolmson 00:33
I know can't believe it. Season two already. How did we do season one?
Martin O'Toole 00:38
Just a whirlwind on the one hand. I feel like it's been a long time since we did this podcast.
Julia Malcolmson 00:45
Well, yeah, we took a couple of weeks out. On the other hand, you did?
Martin O'Toole 00:49
It feels like I need more time.
Julia Malcolmson 00:52
Yeah, maybe.
Martin O'Toole 00:55
Ati and Mudah agree. So what's happening?
Julia Malcolmson 01:01
We've moved again, we've moved back down South Island, close to where we lived before, which we're very happy about we've got a nice new house gradually unpacking and jumped straight back into the podcast.
Martin O'Toole 01:15
We have and of course, hello. The fundamental difference being that we are now sampling video sampling, playing with you trying it out, trialling that's the point. Ati. Mudah. Making a podcast. Thanks. Yeah, so we've got video, and we've got lights and light, we have a lot of light. So the whole thing got a little bit more serious. And I suppose I should already apologise for the fact that you will experience in the next couple of episodes. Some of those video video graphic teething troubles.
Julia Malcolmson 01:59
Yeah, but we want to be honest, nothing, you know, it doesn't always start smoothly, and everyone's got as a process. We've all got to get there.
Martin O'Toole 02:06
Absolutely. Besides, I wonder how many people actually watch podcasts anyway. Um, so I'm still undecided about that.
Julia Malcolmson 02:12
Well, I didn't realise this. I think you knew this. But when I was watching listening to a podcast the other day, the video popped up on my laptop of the podcast
Martin O'Toole 02:20
was that Joe Rogan? Yeah. You have a Joe Rogan has an exclusive OR had an exclusive deal with Spotify. So he was the only video podcast but obviously anchor, who are Spotify as podcast platform and the podcast platform we use. recently sent me a message to say, go go wild with video.
Julia Malcolmson 02:44
Okay, in fairness, I didn't watch the video. It was nice to watch it at the beginning to see who I was listening to. Then I was packing was I was listening, so I didn't.
Martin O'Toole 02:52
Yeah, well, no, I listened to podcasts when I'm riding my motorbike. So I obviously I'm not looking at videos and well, perhaps you could let us know listeners. If you are enjoying seeing our mugs. Or, or you just quite like to listen to us. Nonetheless, there will be video. So you can watch it should you want to. So Season Two we've got well, it's still unravelling. Isn't
Julia Malcolmson 03:20
it is great guests booked in.
Martin O'Toole 03:23
Yeah, we're kind of I think season one if you'd like was very much a reflection of my journey. Yeah. Things that I'd discovered and things that I'd learned. And through my healing process, and season two now begins to open up some some more interesting territories, doesn't it? And I think also, lest we forget the name of the podcast, which is how to die happy. We're actually going to start getting involved with the elephant in the room. That is death.
Julia Malcolmson 03:58
Which, yeah, we need to talk about it
Martin O'Toole 04:01
unequivocally, and we've got some pretty damn interesting people lined up to talk about it as well. So I'm very, very excited. But it's unravelling. So we have a we have a few guests confirmed. And you can always find out what guests we do have lined up. If you go on how to die happy podcast.com forward slash on dash, the dash show. And then you'll have to click into the season two section, which I actually just built last night. Because as we've said, probably 1,000,001 times there ain't no huge production team here. It's me and it's her and the dogs and the dogs who regularly provide nothing but irritation and legs and cuddles. There's there's love there's noise and there is love. So who is on today's show?
Julia Malcolmson 04:54
On today's show. We have got Evan Rilling. And he is an incredible chef and also a very keen, I was gonna say gardener, but it's not it's not even just gardening is it he's permaculture farmer. And he's bringing that to the community of Ulluwatu. And he's just released a wonderful cookbook that is far more than just a cookbook, it kind of brings in a lot of like, more spiritual side of eating and connecting with your food and practices from around the world. So we have the pleasure of discussing this with him.
Martin O'Toole 05:31
Yeah, Evans, a really interesting guy, because he's a he, he's obviously grown up in a really wholesome family arrangement, whereas is parents were already intrinsically interested in and connected to food. And they taught him to garner that, but also through his surfing. And through his travels, he's happened upon, I suppose, certain types of people, because surfing attracts a certain type of vibe, a very mellow vibe, but also, he's travelled the world. So he's met lots of indigenous people. He's had some phenomenal experiences. And of course, he's learned how they cook. And one of the things we talked to Evan about in great detail is permaculture, permaculture farming. And for those of you that don't know what permaculture farming is, it's, it's, it's a model that is completely different to the traditional agricultural crop farming model. So it's a way of observing the land that you're working with. But But creating a complementary ecosystem. So it's not just mono crop, it's what can we put over there? And what would work? What would keep that more healthy, perhaps a shade or what fruit tree could be put there, and so on and so forth. And you continue to build this process? Hello. You continue to build this process? Right down to the animals that you that you have on the lands? So down to the geese, the ducks, the pigs, the whatever, the chickens?
Julia Malcolmson 07:07
Well, yeah, it's about working with mother nature, not working against her.
Martin O'Toole 07:11
Yeah, absolutely. And it's 100% natural. So of course, it's organic. And we know that we really, I don't think we talked enough about organic food in this episode, although we we talked around the whole concept of, of being mindful of dogs sneezing all over me. Be mindful of what you consume.
Julia Malcolmson 07:29
Yeah, I mean, it comes into that I just, there's so much to talk about within this subject of food. But yeah, we didn't manage to speak about organic, but we know how important it is. And I think when you talk about permaculture, you're automatically talking about organic farming,
Martin O'Toole 07:43
you are better again, some people might not know that. So I suppose the point I wanted to make really was was about organic food. And you will discover in this episode, we talk length about how the shortage of farmable soil we have left on the planet and the destruction that industrial agriculture is is causing to the planet and to the soil and to our bodies. Because, of course, the heavy use of pesticides, which people are wearing hazmat seems to spray on to the food that you eat,
Julia Malcolmson 08:22
because it not only does our food have now very minimal minerals in it because of the soil quality. It also is palmful of pesticides, chemicals, yes, very likely to be GMO. So it's obviously been genetically modified, to look better to grow better, but definitely not to taste better or to give us more nutrients.
Martin O'Toole 08:44
So the end result of all this this mass production is that we're eating an inferior product, which has got a lot of harmful chemicals in it so harmful that they wear a hazmat suit to apply it. And this is going to cause is causing and is going to cause long term major major health issues. So with all this in mind, we talk about the need to grow. And it is a great podcast. He's a wonderful guy. Of course, he's also a rapper. I didn't know that I had no idea. Yes. So you know, you'll you'll hear a bit of beatboxing I apologise in advance and most profusely for my piss poor beatboxing. I had no idea I was going to be asked to do it. I do not profess to be a beat boxer. Felt like you know, like sort of Uncle dad doing that. But nonetheless,
Julia Malcolmson 09:42
you did it, it was good, it was entertainment. It's entertainment.
Martin O'Toole 09:46
Okay, well, shall we get on? Listen to No, we're not losing. We're not just listening to or watching. Should we just get on with the episode with an
Julia Malcolmson 09:56
episode one, episode one of season two,
Martin O'Toole 09:58
episode one, season two. Evan Rilling
10:01
Evan Rilling 10:29
freestyle kitchen in the house today
Martin O'Toole 10:36
thank you, Evan.
Evan Rilling 10:38
Yeah. Good to be here.
Martin O'Toole 10:39
How are you, buddy?
Evan Rilling 10:41
I'm doing good.
Martin O'Toole 10:42
So I need to say Happy Thanksgiving. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. What's happening in your life?
Evan Rilling 10:50
Oh, well, I got my new cookbook. And I feel like I'm just stepping out into the world more, sharing more and moving into more teaching actually, is really cool.
Martin O'Toole 11:02
Cool. Well, we're gonna ask you all about your cookbook soon. But my first question is a little challenge for you. So we've got spinach, pumpkin, chickpeas, avocado, and tomatoes in the fridge. What's for dinner?
Evan Rilling 11:21
Okay, so spinach, pumpkin, chickpeas, avocado. Alright, so I'm gonna go with the roasted pumpkin. So that's gonna be roasted in the oven. Nice. carmelize golden. No skin on so we can just like eat little cubes of that. Chickpeas, I'm gonna cook with the tomatoes, and the spinach. So we'll do like a nice kind of like stew. I mean, a few other ingredients would be helpful.
Martin O'Toole 11:49
Well assume we've got the standard stuff. Alright, so
Julia Malcolmson 11:53
we've got the storecupboard ingredients, garlic, onions, chilli sauce and herbs. Maybe Yeah,
Evan Rilling 11:57
so we've got the guy like bit of garlic and onions, I would like toasted on kind of low with some olive oil or coconut oil. Or the chickpeas cooked on. Here we go. I've already cooked for you. They're ready. Okay, so then I'd add the chickpeas in. Okay, we're finished. And then we got the tomato in and cook that let's do a bit of had some other like fresh herbs, maybe some time or something, I'd throw that in there. So once those are nice and soft and delicious with tomatoes, onions and garlic, throw in the spin and right at the end. So we've got those cooked up super nice. And then bed plate that throw the squash on top. And then a bit of fresh avocado on the side.
Martin O'Toole 12:38
I like the sound of that
Julia Malcolmson 12:39
sounded good. It's actually in the fridge. So if you wouldn't mind,
Martin O'Toole 12:42
maybe right after this podcast. All right, I can show you guys the way. How would that be yet? And so of course, no How to die happy podcast is a how to die happy podcast without the two dogs making a nuisance of themselves. And you've probably already heard, they are fighting over a shell of some description and there's some barking in the background. So it's just part of the vibe. And thankfully, none of our listeners have complained about it. So just so you know, that's the dogs. That's all good.
Evan Rilling 13:12
I like dogs.
Martin O'Toole 13:12
It's all good. So let me ask you a question. What What advice would you have for people who say they don't have time to cook healthy meals?
Evan Rilling 13:23
Well, if they want to cook and they don't have time, I would say they should make time is the first thing and make it a priority and understand why it's important to them. And to see the there's a lot of like unseen blessings in cooking other than just eating, it's a great opportunity for connection. And then, you know, when someone goes, Okay, well I can make a little time, the first thing I would focus on is learning how to find really good ingredients. Because if you have the best ingredients one, it's going to be really healthy for you. It's also good and tastes really good. It's also more sustainable, because they're local, usually. And from there, you can make good food really fast. You only need a couple good things. You put them together and you've got a tasty meal. If you have a bad ingredients submission,
Martin O'Toole 14:10
it makes it more difficult. I think that's something I need to take on board, isn't it?
Julia Malcolmson 14:14
Oh, yeah. I mean, you're often quite surprised when you want some dinner and I whip something up in 10 minutes. You're like, Oh, okay. doesn't take that long.
Martin O'Toole 14:22
Which is weird because I did used to be a cook in a bistro. Ah, but I think since I became more plant based, I've just got this bizarre phobia of of working with just vegetables.
Evan Rilling 14:35
What's that about?
Martin O'Toole 14:38
I have no idea. I don't know perhaps it's also because I'm kind of busy and doing stuff and but it's it's it's easy to tell yourself. You're too busy, isn't it? And that's the that's the fundamental point.
Evan Rilling 14:48
Yeah, I think that's most people's reason for not doing something I'm too busy. And it's just a matter of going okay, what's important to me. So, if your health and your relationship with food then your the connections you can build through that are important, then you can make time and I think that's a big thing that people are missing is all the beauty that comes from the cooking experience beyond eating, because if you're just trying to eat Okay, cool got to eat, it's fast, it's easy. But if you want to create more connection to your friends, your family to the earth, then there's a lot of really cool blessings that come through cooking.
Julia Malcolmson 15:27
So the relationship to food is something that you you're really keen to help people change, aren't you to shift?
Evan Rilling 15:33
Yeah, yeah, I love eating. I love food a lot. And I really like helping people with that.
Julia Malcolmson 15:38
Nice.
Martin O'Toole 15:40
So when did you decide you love food?
Evan Rilling 15:50
When I was nursing,
Martin O'Toole 15:51
no, no, no, no. Okay, let me work on that question. Obviously, we need food we eat right. So we've been doing that since we were children. But when did you decide you had this? You know, this food, passion, the vibe.
Evan Rilling 16:05
I don't think it was really a decision. It was just something I came in with. So I really liked nursing a lot. Actually. I just didn't want to stop. So and then like, yeah, when I was a little kid, like, my dad would call me out in the ether. Because I was just like, loved eating so much. And yeah, from a pretty young age, I was like, making little concoctions and different flavorful things, because I loved it. So it was not really, I don't know, if it wasn't like a decision, it was just in me, it was something I always liked.
Martin O'Toole 16:43
That's interesting, because I never really had that. Well, I suppose I happened upon it and then decided, Okay, I like cooking. But it was never, it wasn't a calling to me. And I suppose that's perhaps where I'm going with this. It was a calling for you.
Evan Rilling 16:58
Yeah, for sure. And it's it's been a journey, like there's been times in my life where I'm like, I'm not supposed to be a cook. I don't want to do this. Like there's something else more. And I think the like getting to this point has been quite a journey of self exploration to know what is it that I want to share through this? Yes, I love eating. I like making food. But I've always known there was more than like, just cooking, that wasn't the only thing I wanted to do. So that decision to like, move from just being a chef to someone that's teaching about food. I guess maybe like four or five years ago, I decided that but it's been a process. And it's been like developing like, what is it? There's a lot of things I could teach, like, I've tried all these different diets, do I teach about that? Or what is it I really want to share. And so that's taken me quite a while to like refine that. And to simplify it to just like, I want to share connection with people and use food as a medium to create connection. And also just share about like the basic basic knowledge and kind of framework for eating healthy. And that like to help people kind of break out of a diet and be more like, Okay, this is like, the basic rules of nature that I can understand. And like, based on that I can learn what feels good for my body. And, and, and have fun with it and have it be simple instead of like a thing where like, Okay, I gotta read all this stuff. And I got to I can't have this. I can't have that. And like more like, oh, what can I have what works for me? There's like, hundreds of amazing foods, most of them that people have never even tried, I don't know of. So like to share those. I love that because I they are exciting for me.
Julia Malcolmson 18:50
That's really nice. Because I find myself I get really stuck in I know exactly what I'm gonna buy every week. And I want to pick new things. Yeah, but it's just easy to pick the same fruit in the same veg. And then through that you're not making the same dishes and then you start losing the passion.
Evan Rilling 19:04
Yeah. Yeah. And then it becomes more about fueling the body, which is a huge part of cooking and eating. And super important. So it's just a matter of how, what kind of relationship do you want to have with it? Do you want to be excited? Do you want to use it as a creative outlet? Do you want to use it to like bring people together? Or do you want to just like, This is my fuel. I just do the same thing. And there's so many like options of how we want to relate and play with food.
Martin O'Toole 19:35
I suppose it depends on the frame of mind during on that day, though. Yeah, there are times when you just need to eat right. Yeah, I mean, I do that often. But I would imagine you in particular, a person who's very conscious of what you're putting in your body. Yeah. All right. Do you eat junk food?
Evan Rilling 19:56
Not so much. But I kind of recently maybe A little more junk food, I was working with this trainer, and he was encouraging me to eat junk food. And well, because the goal was to like put on weight, he was like, if you can put on weight, you're gonna be a lot healthier and feel better. And he was like, just eat anything like, he's like, You need to eat a bunch of sandwiches. And I'm like, Well, I don't really like gluten, which I didn't really start doing because I was like, I know, I didn't feel good from it. But I started eating like some burgers and french fries. And just kind of like, it was a good experiment, experiment. And I always experimenting and going, okay, like, I have this kind of concept of how I should eat. And someone else is saying, try this other thing. And like, Okay, let me try it and see how my body feels. And that's, I think throughout my life, I've tried all kinds of different diets, some like very limited, so I'm more open, and it's all an experiment to go like, am I enjoying this? How am I feeling after I eat this? Is it good for the earth? Like, what? Yeah, is it fine. So
Martin O'Toole 21:04
I think that's what's important. Or at least that's what I've learned is important in only in the last couple of years is because I used to, I used to do a lot of drugs drink a lot. Now the major problem and when you certainly personally speaking, when you're constantly in a hangover mode, you're not really then thinking I'm going to have a salad to deal with the hangover. So every morning is kind of like, well, perhaps every morning it was maybe another line of cocaine and certain some more alcohol, but then ultimately, I had to eat something. And so breakfast, for example, was one of the most unhealthy meals I would ever have. And it was usually fried food and you know, lots of pork. You know, we had full English breakfast. You know, what's in a full English breakfast? I can guess but not exactly two giant sausages, two fried eggs, some hashbrowns some bacon, baked beans, grilled tomatoes, grilled tomatoes.
Evan Rilling 22:05
Yeah, yeah, to pregnancy only vegetable.
Julia Malcolmson 22:09
grilled in All the fat
Martin O'Toole 22:11
in the whole hangover meal. So I suppose the point is, is only a couple of years ago, I am about to celebrate four years of sobriety. And so the last couple of years, well, to two and a half years, my whole relationship with food has completely changed. But these days, I'm I suppose I'm just constantly more mindful of what I but probably because of just the fact that all we eat is healthy food now. Kinda
Julia Malcolmson 22:41
kinda where are we are in and out of the healthy food, but the majority of our food is very vegetable heavy.
Martin O'Toole 22:48
Yeah, true that. Yeah. So it's a completely different mindset, mindset switch. And, and from my perspective, it was it was working out that all of these things that I was consuming, are having a profound effect on my not just in my body, but my physiology and my mental health as well.
Evan Rilling 23:09
Yeah, and it's, it's interesting that you guys are saying healthy food is more vegetables, which I think most people would say, oh, yeah, that's healthy. It's not necessarily healthy for everyone. And I think it's, it's, for me, it's like all about keeping an open mind and awareness. And like the knowledge of what are the vegetables where they coming from? How does what works in my body? Well, like there's some people that eat a lot of meat and feel really healthy. There's some people that eat a lot of meat and feel horrible. And so it's each person needs different, different things. Yeah. And I like helping people kind of learn to tune into themselves and gain that awareness. It's really cool. And sounds like for you, the more vegetables you feel really good from that
Martin O'Toole 23:57
the and that's the key point that I meant to make and completely lost my self in my own question. Yeah. It's it's feeling into your own body, isn't it? And yeah, and asking yourself, did I enjoy that? Or am I enjoying that? Or is this good for me? Yeah. Yeah. And so I personally have felt that although I must say I went 100% plant based, and wasn't feeling 100% Great. Then I went on this huge detox 43 day detox, which was 100% Natural Medicines and cut out loads of stuff I did, did the blood tests and, and then was, I had my diet aligned with all these tests, which was quite profound. But I realised that I was I was missing something. And so I started eating fish. And actually, I'm feeling better. Now. I've got fish and eggs in my back in my diet.
Evan Rilling 24:49
Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. It's different for everyone. And it's cool to just keep an open mind. And for me, it's like the like a basic principle. Have eating close to nature, no matter what our diet is like, the closer it is to a wild food and grown in a way that it would naturally be in nature. Generally, it's healthier for us. 100% agree. Yeah. So that's it simple one.
Julia Malcolmson 25:15
And usually tastes better as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 25:21
But that leads us nicely on to how we met you. So we met you in a permaculture forest Alou food forest. And we'd only just we were aware of permaculture food. But I think again, it's safe to say that I was the unhealthy person Jules has been super healthy yogini for a long time, certainly watching what she was consuming. And so it's been a process for her to teach me not just about food, incidentally, about cleaning products and about sunscreen and all of these other things that we don't even think about, you know, that actually, mind blowing fact I discovered the average household in the West has 72 toxic chemicals in the household, absolute destructive, give you cancer kill you to death, chemicals designed to keep the house clean, and to and to do things for you.
Julia Malcolmson 26:22
So what do we use now?
Evan Rilling 26:24
It's like vinegar or something vinegar. Keep your house clean. We're gonna kill you.
Martin O'Toole 26:29
I mean, what should it cost? Because it's smells fresh. And because the TV tells us it's good for you know, didn't look, make the bathroom shine, everyone's using this stuff. So yeah. So it's been a process for me to get my head around that. And then of course, we discovered permaculture. And we were fascinated by the concept of permaculture. And before we talk to you about that I watched a documentary I don't know if I ever asked you this. It's called the need to grow. Did you ever see that done ountry profoundly interesting documentary that essentially sets out the stall for humankind. And it's, you know, it's a pretty harsh reality, a bit of an introduction, where it talks to us about how industrial agriculture is, is the most destructive human activity taking place right now on the planet. And a direct result of, of human agriculture, sorry, industrial industrial agriculture is that we only have 60 years left of farmable soil, healthy fumble soil on the planet. And so what are we going to do? And that's the introduction to the documentary. Fast forward. I don't know a year later, after we'd watch that documentary. We're interested in permaculture and then we happen upon you and you've got this amazing food forest in Ottawa too. So do you want to tell us about that?
Evan Rilling 27:54
Yeah, sure. It's a community project. I mean, you guys know about it. I
Martin O'Toole 27:58
guess it's the listeners want to tell the folks.
Evan Rilling 28:02
Yeah, so it's a community food forest project. A food forest is like you would think of a regular forest. And it's mimicking some of the systems but most the majority of what we're growing is edible. So there's a lot of yummy food and a lot of cool different varieties of food that we're growing in there. Yeah, it's a community project. So anyone's welcome to come and join. And one of my big intentions for starting it was giving people a space to reconnect to the earth and deepen that connection. And also to work on soil regeneration. A lot of people at first were coming in they're like, where's the food? You know, what, what can we eat and
Martin O'Toole 28:45
dinner. And there was so food forest on the fire.
Evan Rilling 28:50
And there wasn't much food. I mean, there still isn't a tonne of food, but it's trees take a while. But the first thing I was focusing on growing and creating was soil. And so that's, that's an awesome process that I really love. And you guys actually played a huge role in getting our community compost system going. We did. And that was, that's still going. So thank you guys. They came for the listeners. They came, I think to one work day and then the next work day, they asked me what we needed and they brought all the supplies to start a community compost and help build it and off we went.
Martin O'Toole 29:25
I said it's been really nice to keep an eye on the Instagram stories and see that see that in use? Yeah, I suppose it's worth discussing that for the listeners because you know, when I watched this documentary and saw 60 years left a farm bill soil and going wow. And incidentally, this is because of the excessive use of pesticides and weed killers and that you know, the process, essentially, the industrial farming process, which is removing the nutrient density from the soil, right? Correct. So what did we do we turned up with we made we actually I got a guy who had owned a lot of pallets to deliver a pile of pallets and we got some brackets and some screws. Yeah. And we made a system.
Evan Rilling 30:10
Yep, yeah, so we had with the pallets, we had three bins, all with one open face. And then we got two large trash cans for people to drop off their food scraps, one has food scraps, the other has leafs in it. And so when they drop food scraps, they put leaves and then we take that material, the food scrap and leafs and we use green material and manure. And so we mix one layer like one layer green material, one manure, one food scrap leafs, and then we pile it like that, like a big cake.
Martin O'Toole 30:43
Like a big stinky cake. Steaming stinky.
Evan Rilling 30:47
Yeah, and the compost. Probably the stinkiest part is actually the food scraps. But as soon as you get those mixed in with the other layers, it's not really stinky. It's stinky when you have a bunch of food scraps sitting and rotting. But when you mix it with the green material in the manure and and really do it properly, it's not it doesn't really smell bad. And the end product smells super good when the soil it's like wow, this is powerful, amazing stuff.
Martin O'Toole 31:13
And so the point is, dear listeners to take this pile of stuff and watch it evolve through the three bays. So you kind of turn it and then you toss it and eventually, in the end, the end result is this. Super nice, super warm, super damp. 100% nutrient dense compost, right? Yeah,
Evan Rilling 31:35
yeah, become soil. And that is the foundation for growing really nutrient rich plants. And really for life, in a sense, because it's full of life itself, all the bacteria and basically bacteria growing in there. And then you use that to grow plants and those plants are full of life. And as more and more plants grow, it starts to save the water, those plants die, it creates more soil, the more plants the more animals come. Basically, we start creating a system that has more life.
Martin O'Toole 32:08
And that kind of in a nutshell is permaculture.
Evan Rilling 32:11
Yeah, it's one part of it for sure.
Martin O'Toole 32:13
So what what are the other components of permaculture? When it comes to considering how if, if we've got this system, which a great lump of the world believes is a perfect system, aka industrial agriculture, using farming using pesticides and weed killer? What? Yeah, I know. Right? Which incidentally, wear a hazmat suit to spray onto the food we eat it. Now in I don't know, well, obviously, it's happening. And it's and it's happening on a major scale. So yeah, there is a great lump of the population that this still doesn't understand this. So and so I'm keen for them to understand a if people are wearing hazmat suits to spray our vegetables, do you really want to eat that stuff? B if if this stuff is killing the soil? What are we going to do about it? So then we're into the permaculture space where you've just you've just described how to create life. We just created it with our own food scraps, some some dead leaves, but in manure? What is the what are the other parts of the process in permaculture that mean that you don't need pesticides, for example?
Evan Rilling 33:31
Well, those natural ways of handling those things also. I mean, there's there's probably a lot I could share about this. But General agriculture is grown in a mono crop, which means it's just one crop. And it makes the plants a lot more susceptible to like pest and also like funguses moulds, that kind of stuff. So by growing plants more in the natural way, they have more like power basically, and and are way more sustainable. Ask me the question again.
Martin O'Toole 34:01
Well, I'll give you a little hint. I was thinking about how we live in a an age now where we're having to use chemicals to kill insects, but before chemicals what used to kill insects?
Evan Rilling 34:13
Well, there's a lot of things birds, there's different plants, there's insects that kill insects.
Martin O'Toole 34:19
Yeah. So part of permaculture, as I understand it, is to understand to first the first stage of permaculture is to observe the ecosystem itself, isn't it? Yeah, wherever you're going, and then to ask yourself, what kind of birds do we have? What kind of do we might we need ducks? Might we need geese? And so on and so forth? Yeah,
Evan Rilling 34:38
and it really depends on where you are. And it's just the more you understand how nature works, because really what we're doing is working with nature, where our current system is kind of working against nature. We're putting chemicals in kill things. We're, when they're not watching the natural systems are just going okay, we're gonna wipe out this whole natural system. clear everything. And we're going to do it our way. So in permaculture, you're watching the natural systems and you go, Okay, how does the water work on this land? What's the soil? What are the animals? What plants already exist here? And then you're working with that. So by doing that, we just create more abundance and more life. I would say a downside to that is it's harder to do like mass production and that way. So that would be a downside.
Julia Malcolmson 35:28
But then, with the industrial farming, so much of it goes to waste anyway, doesn't it?
Evan Rilling 35:33
Yeah, a lot of it goes away. I mean, really, in any kind of farming and growing. Some of the food usually goes to waste, like when a tree produces there's so much abundance, but it's kind of cool because it's like, okay, the birds get some we get some and works and the stuff that falls on the ground, it's not really going to waste necessarily because it goes back into the earth and creates more soil
Martin O'Toole 35:54
or in the compost. Yeah. Yeah, I'm, I'm fascinated with how Permaculture is, has been very rapidly understood, and actually being rolled out now in urban areas. And there are some famous or famous, I can't read the name of the chapter is a famous, urban permaculture farmer, I think in competent.
Evan Rilling 36:19
Yeah, he's got a master class is amazing.
Martin O'Toole 36:21
I think it was a documentary as well, he did a TED talk as well. But I'm so sorry, I can't credit this chap. But he's managed to evolve people's thinking, you know, in South Central LA. To turning any piece of Wasteland into an urban permaculture farm.
Evan Rilling 36:42
Yeah, super cool. Right? At our undermentioned my my thing with, like, the industrial agriculture is agroforestry is kind of a new solution to that in a way. So it's, it is large scale growing, that can feed a lot of people. But it's using multiple crops and multiple layers. So there's like a tree that a certain height, and then there's a higher trees that builds a canopy. And then there's maybe smaller, like fruit trees below that, and then vegetables below that. But it's grown in a way that is in these large rows. So it's easier to harvest and stuff where like, the food forest we're creating is not really designed to like harvest a lot of food. It's more designed to have a lot of cool varieties and species and people can come and eat off it. But it's not going to like feed a whole city or something like that. It's small scale, something more like what you would have in your yard, or maybe a neighbourhood garden kind of situation.
Martin O'Toole 37:37
But then my personal view, and this isn't just about food. Yeah, my personal view is that the centralization model is now proving that it doesn't work. On a global scale, obviously, we're talking about centralization. So let's start globally. And I can't help but wonder that I look at what's happening the evolution of decentralised currencies, for example, Blockchain decentralisation in general, I can't help but wonder whether or not there's a wonderful opportunity now, to do exactly the same thing with food production. So my point is, we don't have to worry about mass production. Actually, we have to worry about this community. And I don't know how it works. I'm not here to fix it all. I'm just here to talk about it on a podcast. But perhaps there's a way to plan that. So a community's X Y, Zed size next to a community that's X, Y, Zed size and exa communities X Y, Zed size, and then perhaps people start to adopt this food forest model that you would love to roll out internationally, right?
Evan Rilling 38:44
Yes. Yeah. So that's, I mean, that's basically what our ancestors did 100 years ago, or, you know, around that time was, they were growing their own food. So it's definitely possible. And I think it's just a matter of a shift in mindset if we want to live that way. So one thing we can do is just start learning start growing, go to community garden, even go to a farmers market, just to start connecting, visit a farm and start connecting in that way. One of my goals with the food forest is actually larger scale reforestation, which is not it's not all about feeding us it's it's about reforesting and rebuilding the soil, rebuilding the water, helping life for animals, that kind of stuff, and there'll be food also.
Martin O'Toole 39:37
Yeah, not coming and just not any food.
Evan Rilling 39:41
And, and a lot of the, one of the problems with the soil, how you were saying we're losing our good soil, especially in Indonesia is their deforesting a lot of the forests. So what they do is they cut the trees, and then they burn the land. And so you're left with just dry soil and if it's a dry As part of Indonesia, like Sam Sumbawa, Zumba going that way, the sun beats down on it, there's no rain in the dry season, it's super windy, the wind starts blowing off the topsoil. And it's basically the process of creating a desert. So humans are like starting deserts, where we could be starting these lush forests. So it's kind of a way to, I guess, repair some of that, and bring back life.
Martin O'Toole 40:29
Yeah, but I think it's important that we understand whatever we're taking out, we also need to be putting back in. Okay, cool, and
Evan Rilling 40:38
creating systems where we don't need to take so much out. Because the like, like, we were saying, for the industrial agriculture, they're basically going and clearing a whole land, they're taking out the natural systems, and then they're going, Okay, we're gonna place in here, corner, we're gonna do cattle, that system doesn't really work. I mean, it works for producing a lot and selling it and those people making money. But as far as like, taking care of the earth, taking care of the health of humans, it doesn't, it doesn't work for those parts of our life.
Julia Malcolmson 41:14
Well, I suppose it's taking from Mother Earth, so then we're depleting the soil. But then when we consume those foods, we're not getting that much nutrients, are we so there's not many minerals in any of that food anymore.
Evan Rilling 41:25
And it really comes down to reciprocation, when it's a lot of taking and little giving back. And when anytime you have that in a cycle, it gets depleted. So it's just like, the reciprocation to Mother Earth is missing for a lot of culture. And there's a tribe called the Kogi Have you guys heard of them? No, they're from Colombia there. I've met with a couple of their elders before. And they consider themselves like Earthkeepers, basically, and they go around the world and do ceremonies and specific PowerPoints, that would be kind of like the chakras of the earth. And they're re energising them, but their biggest teaching is giving back to Mother Earth. And it could just be like sending loving energy back, but getting in that loop of reciprocation, because most of our society is all about like, Okay, I'm gonna take this, I got this, I'm mining this, and I'm gonna cut these trees. And there's that concept of like, oh, wait, I need to like be an exchange with this is kind of missing for some reason.
Martin O'Toole 42:29
Yeah, there's no energetic exchange at all. In that regard. You've done quite a lot of travelling, and hung out with the on the odd indigenous folk.
Evan Rilling 42:39
Yeah, fair amount. Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 42:41
How does? And this may be an obvious question, but how it is the relationship that these folks have with the earth contrast and compare to the relationship of many Western folks that you might know or to be more generalistic? Just Western society? Yeah.
Evan Rilling 43:03
So from, from what I know, and what I've experienced some kind of what I feel in myself, because I feel a part of that lineage. When you go to take something from nature, you ask, it's not just our right to have whatever we want. So there's an asking, and also the ability to listen, and be in communication with nature. Because it we can be that's possible. So by going, Hey, I'd like to take this tree, I'm going to build a house, you ask the tree. And so maybe the tree goes, Yes, I want to, I want to help you. I want to give my life for you, or the animal that you're going to eat because yeah, I'm, I'm okay, I want to give my life for you to live. And so it's like that kind of deeper feeling and deeper respect. And there's, like, I mean, it's different for each person. But when you let's say, you're going to eat meat, for example, when you know, an animal and you kill the animal, you really care about it, and like are probably going to be like crying because you took its life and it's like, very deep in your heart. It's like, I love this thing. And like, Thank you for giving your life for me to live. Where in the western society, there's a lot of disconnection. It's just like you go to the store, it's a package of meat.
Martin O'Toole 44:35
Cool. All the dirty work is being done.
Evan Rilling 44:39
Yeah. And it's done in an even more dirty way. So yeah, and same with you know, it's not just with me, it's with the plants also, like I mean, I think a lot of vegans are like, can get highly against eating meat and I understand why because of the factory farming and the way as animals are being treated, but the same thing is happening with plants, we look at like mono crops full of chemicals, chemical, fertiliser, GMO GMOs. It's, it's, it's just very gross.
Julia Malcolmson 45:17
Like I said to you, didn't I A while ago, I wanted to experiment with trying to eat fish again. And just to see how it worked in my body. Yeah. And I said, I said to Martin, I said, you know, really, if I want to start eating fish, I need to learn to catch the fish, and to do the whole process myself so that I can also offer gratitude and ask the fish because otherwise, I feel like I'm too disassociated from all of it. And I don't want to take that, but actually has it's turned out like I did try eating fish and it just doesn't work with what he says know. Everything about my being says no, so but I would like, you know, if I ever tried again, I really want to do the whole process.
Evan Rilling 45:52
Yeah. Yeah. Cool thing, just kind of like popped into my head, he was talking about asking like, Hey, can I use this tree like this animal. For people that are wanting to get more connected to food, say they wanting to get more healthy, there is a way to get into communication with the ingredients. So the herbs, spices, the plants, animals. And the way to do that is just to start trying and be open to the possibility and it could come and you might hear something, you might see something, you might feel something and you just kind of have to try it. And then eventually, if you're meant to be in that connection, you'll notice and it'll happen. And with that connection, you can ask for help. You can be like, Hey, I'm feeling sick, like can will, this being helped me this plant spirit or whatever it is? And ask for help?
Martin O'Toole 46:45
And of course, there are medicinal plants for every human alien.
Evan Rilling 46:49
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a big difference with the indigenous way of relating compared to the Western way.
Martin O'Toole 47:00
Yeah, I think my observation is we actually we in the West that I, I'm not in Well, I am in Southeast Asia. Be the I'm not I don't go to supermarkets for my food anymore. So I my relationship has completely changed. But I am a huge believer in never making judgmental statements about anybody, especially when you know, for a fact that you were that person, right? So it's just part of the process. It's part of part of our journey. Yeah. And until such time as we either educate ourselves or we're lucky enough to happen upon someone who educates us, you know, that it can be a slow journey. But I My sense is, you know, many folks living in the cities in the west of the of the planet, and indeed even the largest cities here now, they have an incredibly divorced relationship from their food and the land that it's an on which it's grown. I, before I went vegan, I did used to hunt. And I used to be quite a prolific hunter of pheasants presents the odd deer. And you know, Partridge pigeon, whatever was was up in the air on that day, we would get blasted out of the sky, but
Julia Malcolmson 48:18
that was put so beautifully
Martin O'Toole 48:22
I'm talking about Martin version 1.0. And that's that was his perspective, however, and here's the big however, I would never shoot anything that I wasn't prepared then to eat. Yeah, so we would of course, I was in a syndicate. So we would get up every Saturday morning super early, we, you know, we'd all been out in our tweed gear and we'd walk the London wasn't, wasn't like the shmancy things you see on the telly where, you know, you've got all the staff helping you and you're sitting around drinking gin whilst somebody else drives the birds and you just shoot, I have been on a few shoots, like they have to say, Yeah, we would walk the land for miles spend all day doing it. And, and then at the end, we would split all of the birds between us. And then of course, it was our responsibility to to dress those birds. Now, just for the listeners who think why on earth would you put a shirt and tie or a jumper or trousers on a dead pigeon? It's an expression short ever Can you elaborate? elaborate upon but essentially dressing a bird means that you have to obviously, you know, is a newsflash it doesn't come in a cellophane pack completely clean with no feathers, no head, no innards, no feet. Does it even matter? Actually, dressing a bird is a pretty messy process and and it's not for the faint hearted either. Because you do have to whip its head off. You do have to get it you do have to take his feet off should you wish to and plucking a bird is is I mean that's a job and a half on its own, isn't it? Yeah. I don't know where go with this. But I guess the point is, I used to buy my chickens totally cleaned in a cellophane pack in the supermarkets, then I then I learned how to hunt, I realise hang on a minute, I'm not just going to shoot things will, will for sorry, mindlessly and willfully. So I'm going to eat everything that I catch. But then by that rationale, I've got to learn how to how to deal with that. And, and as much as it says it's a perverse connection to have, in a way, I suppose with a dead animal that who was minding its own business flying through the sky. It is connection nonetheless.
Evan Rilling 50:36
Yeah. Because you're very involved with the, I mean, you taking its life. You're preparing it, you're you're going through the whole process, and in that whole time, you're spending time with it.
Martin O'Toole 50:49
Yeah. Yeah. And, and that whole process. So yeah, well, I think that's really why we asked us what hooked me into the idea of permaculture. But now we are significantly more interested in the concept of, of what we can all do the folks at home to fix this problem. And I suppose the short answer is start growing your own food, regardless of how big your your spaces.
Evan Rilling 51:19
Yeah, that's one option for sure. For me, the first thing is Yeah, creating the connection, back to the food. So it could be as simple as cooking a meal and getting connected in that process, or going to a farmers market, going to a farm. Maybe going on a hike and learning like a local wild food that is in abundance that you could eat. or growing your own food growing your own food. It can be on a very small scale on a larger scale. It's quite a lot of work. And it's super rewarding and beautiful. I encourage people to do it. But there's a lot of ways we can just start making the shifts have more connection and more awareness. And anybody can do it no matter the situation.
Julia Malcolmson 52:05
The first time I grew my first broccoli, yeah. And I was like a proud mama. And I was doing it in pots. I had a really small terrace, and I had all these pot plants, herbs and veggies and my first broccoli popped up. I was so proud.
Evan Rilling 52:21
I remember my first plants, I had all these little sprouts, and I'd like come out every morning and watch him and you know, give them love, essentially and energy and be like, Okay, what do you need and build? You start building that relationship?
Martin O'Toole 52:34
Did you name your sprouts?
Evan Rilling 52:36
No
Martin O'Toole 52:37
Is that because you knew at some point, you're gonna end their lives. It was easier. They had no personality.
Evan Rilling 52:46
I just didn't think to name him.
Martin O'Toole 52:49
We were talking about this today because it's so we just moved from the north of barley. And this wonderful old chap, I think he was called wion. Which is, as you know, very popular name in barley. This old chap wire next door to us had a cow a pig, a growing troupe of chickens, didn't he?
Julia Malcolmson 53:10
Yes, yeah, there was a lots of chicks running around
Martin O'Toole 53:12
and a cockrell. And I was and so quite clearly he was suddenly in the business of either growing these chickens for himself, or for the eggs or to sell? I don't know. But then we began to ask ourselves, I wonder if in that situation, you do name your animals, you know, like, you've got 12 chickens, do you name them? And then by that rationale when it comes to the time when you're gonna, you know, and how is that because as you alluded earlier on, it's probably quite an emotional process.
Evan Rilling 53:44
Yeah, I don't know if the name matters that much. In that situation, if you're connected to him, you're connected.
Martin O'Toole 53:52
Yeah. But have you done that before? So have you have you read a pig from from piglet stage or a little or a hen from chick stage and then eventually topped it?
Evan Rilling 54:01
No. I've, let's see I've had when I was a kid, my job was to take care of the chickens, but it was more for eggs. I've killed a rooster. But it wasn't my rooster. Someone wanted to get rid of it.
Martin O'Toole 54:15
Was a neighbour I was having a dispute with? Yeah,
Evan Rilling 54:18
no, no, it wasn't that someone like call. I don't know how I found out that like, we're trying to get rid of this rooster. Do you want to cook it? And I was like, alright, that'd be like a good process for me to do. So I did that. And then I had a friend who raised to go and I helped him with the like the budgeting and the cooking of the goat. And that was quite emotional. I cried a bit during that process after actually just feeling that gratitude, but I haven't done it from start to finish like you're dying.
Martin O'Toole 54:49
Yeah, I was in Cuba one time. I don't know why this memories just hit me. It was because Cuba was obviously suffering badly from the sanctions from the US for oil long, long time, and I went, why 20 years ago 20 plus years ago I was in Cuba. And as a result of all these sanctions, they didn't really have a lot to eat. The main staple meal for most Cubans was something called Murase. Christiana so if you had that rice and black beans, so everyone just leaves on rice and black beans all the time in Cuba, and if they can get hold of some meat, it's a big bonus, but it was chicken was the staple meat. Anyway, I'm on the beach, trying to have a break because I was really sort of strung out as some sort of, you know, nervous breakdown sort of environment. And as with this really restless bloke called James and he would eat this guy could not go on holiday, you know, his idea of holiday was excursion Drink, drink excursion, do something distraction. Every two minutes like mate mate, you want to do want to go snorkelling, this bloke knows there's a shark now I don't want to go snorkelling and trying to just lay down and read a book might make you want to join a catamaran, you know, we can go over to this and go snorkelling, this coral reef? No, I don't want I don't want to go on a catamaran mate. Do you want to pick? Well, I look. And I open my eyes, you know, because this has happened repeatedly. Jay Z is standing there with a lead and a pig. And he said, I've just bought a pig. Why have you bought a piece of fucking sick of this? Morrissey cristianos. So I've had a word with the chef chefs gonna kill it. We're gonna eat it tonight. And I'm like, Whoa. Oh, hang on. Obviously, I had to go through the whole realisation because obviously I'm looking at him looking at the pig pigs looking at me, pigs looking at him. Looking at chef chefs already got the knife. I'm thinking, oh, man, this is real. Yeah. And I mean, it was real. We had to spit roast pig that night. And I have to say after two weeks of eating, you know, like, kinda crap chicken and rice and black beans. It was. It was a real feast. And I did honour that pig. I don't know. I don't think he got a name. wasn't around long enough to be named unfortunately yet. But I did honour that pig. Yeah. Anyway.
Julia Malcolmson 57:07
That's carrots.
Martin O'Toole 57:10
Sorry, my vegan queen. Stories is an offence to one's ears. Yeah,
57:24
Martin O'Toole 57:29
So what was the most fun and interesting chef gig you ever did?
Evan Rilling 57:40
Probably cooking on a surf charter boat in the Mentawis.
Martin O'Toole 57:44
Tell us all about that then.
Evan Rilling 57:47
Well, since I was a little kid, that was my dream was to surf the waves in the Mentawis. It's an island chain off of Sumatra, Indonesia. And I'd watch their videos and be like, Oh my god, like I really want to go surf there. And so I reached out to a bunch of boats. And one pretty much like the I don't know if it's the best boat, but it's the most expensive boat and company contacted me and they're like, can you come in like five days, they needed a chef super quick. And I was like, okay, so I packed up my stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember being like, I was kind of stressed because I was like, I don't know what kind of food they want. Like, I don't know, if there's internet, I didn't know anything. Like what is the ingredients. So I was like, trying to like, copy all these recipes. And anyways, I got out there and pretty much just got thrown on the boat. Packed with the cupboards were like, packed with foods. So it was very hard to find any ingredients. I spent, like the first five days like, I would cook and then I would like take everything out and organise so I could like find everything. But yeah, it was like really incredible wave some of the best waves of my life and wild adventures. And one story that's kind of funny, I'll share. So I was in the mentors. And then I got sent to the Marshall Islands, which are in the middle of the Pacific, like past Guam aways. And we have these guests on the boat and that the owner of the company, the captain of the boats, okay, tonight, we're gonna do like a private dinner on a deserted island because there's all these beautiful islands. All right, I'm a chef, and so
Martin O'Toole 59:27
no pressure. But don't fuck it up.
Evan Rilling 59:31
But there wasn't that other captain had been a chef and I was kind of new to this whole like, boat cheffing thing. So he was like, Alright, here's like, I'll help you out, make these things. And we get all the food ready and packed up, and we're on a jetski and there's a younger guy from the Marshall Islands that worked on the boat. And this guy was kind of like, always sort of like fucking off and getting in trouble. He was like the king. I don't know if he was the king but one of the heads of the aisle. lends nephew. And so he got the job kind of as like a favour. And he was like always getting in trouble. And so he's driving and I got all the food and we're on the jetski going into that. And then like, the waves weren't even that big, there's like little waves and we're getting ready to pull in. tilts, the jetski crashes, all the food in the world to everything. So we're like, gathering all this stuff, like pulling that out, we get it out. Everything's like soaked in the water. But we didn't really have another choice at this stage. So I'm like, we got to, we're cooking it
Martin O'Toole 1:00:34
and finding what we can find on the beach, I guess.
Evan Rilling 1:00:37
No, I mean, there's there's no food on the beach. That was
Martin O'Toole 1:00:41
so well. What everything's already been prepared as well. And it was ready. Yeah, it
Evan Rilling 1:00:45
was like a lot of it was kind of like, like sausages and things like that. So they just got a
Martin O'Toole 1:00:50
little bit salty sausage. Seasoning. That's okay.
Evan Rilling 1:00:53
So I'm like, super stressed. Yeah, I can imagine like, all the wheels came off. And then like, I like kind of like, I'm drying the things out and he's trying to start a fire and there's like, no, really dry wood. So it's like, how we spent like, at least an hour trying to get this fire garden. It's like super smoky. Finally we get a guy in and I'm like, alright, we get like a little calls. We've got like the SE sausages. And I'm like, super sweaty and like tired and just like frack this
Martin O'Toole 1:01:25
bag. I'm never doing this again. But then I guess you had smoked and salt. So you got the smokiness and the sausages. You got the salt. You you connect it to the land on that cooking. Jad. You connect it to the sea and the land.
Evan Rilling 1:01:38
Yeah, it was full force. I was like, Alright, we got to make this happen. Yeah. I don't know why I think maybe we didn't have a walkie talkie. There wasn't really an option to like not do the meal. So I was like, Alright, we're going. So luckily, like the guests show up and like the fires kind of going but smoking and I'm like starting to cook the sausages. And they had all been drinking. So the guests were like pretty drunk. And they're like, oh my god, the sausages are so good. And I was like,
Martin O'Toole 1:02:08
if not a bit wet, but thank you guys worked out. I'm just gonna turn your microphone around directly. Oh, yeah. I love how animated you're being. Okay, but I'm losing you.
Evan Rilling 1:02:20
Yeah. So. Yeah, so that was again, good adventure. I don't usually do that case I cook for someone else.
Martin O'Toole 1:02:30
So I haven't even drops any of your food on the floor. You can rest assured it gets put in the bin. And then he starts again. Yes.
Evan Rilling 1:02:37
And the ocean. Maybe? Maybe? It's fair enough.
Martin O'Toole 1:02:42
It depends if it works. So you mentioned surfing, of course. Now, this is another huge passion of yours, which you've not even talked about. And yeah, I suppose that's in part because we are not surfers. But we want to be surfers, and I want to be surfers. And so I'd love to hear about that. And I'd love to hear about your upbringing, I suppose in terms of, you know, what, what were the what were the childhood things that connected you both to the land and the sea?
Evan Rilling 1:03:13
Yep. Well, the land was kind of easy, because both my parents where they studied horticulture. My mom's a landscape architect. My dad's arborist penny drops. Yeah. So it was like, that was just, they both loved growing food. So we always had gardens and I didn't like it that much when I was a kid, because I was always having to pick the weeds. But I liked eating out of it and like climbing the trees and so that, like connection was established through my home. They my parents liked the ocean, but like, maybe when I was around five or something, we didn't live by the ocean. We didn't really go to the beach as a family. But I had a family friend whose parents would take him like boogie boarding and we would go with him a lot. And then my dad's best friend was a surfer. So for my 10th birthday, I got a surfboard. And actually didn't like it that much.
Martin O'Toole 1:04:10
Did he give you lessons as well? No, he
Evan Rilling 1:04:13
took me maybe like once or something? Yeah, kind of. He go.
Martin O'Toole 1:04:16
Well, don't even know ifyou like them. And I'm not giving you any lessons.
Evan Rilling 1:04:19
I mean, good luck once or twice. Yeah, my brother. My brother got more into it. I was more into like sports like baseball, basketball, soccer. And but my brother would always be like, Come on, let's go and like, I would go and get kind of worked. And then around 13 I had some knee problems. It's called Osgood slaughter. And so I couldn't play sports anymore. And that's when I like shifted and, and I also like was a little bit stronger and like, got better at surfing. And I was like, I love this. So it was like a very beautiful blessing for me and surfing really. I mean, it's built that connection, but it's also led me to travel all around the world like my So my travels have been to go surf different waves and
Martin O'Toole 1:05:04
and of course you've got so many places to to visit with the surfboard. Yeah, yeah, it's
Evan Rilling 1:05:10
a I really love travelling that way it's like takes you to beautiful locations connected to nature and cool locals and amazing waves.
Martin O'Toole 1:05:20
We had another guest Jake, didn't we? And Jake Mackenzie owns drifter, drifter, surf and caffeine and that will Jake's that man has some phenomenal stories. And we've only heard the tip of the iceberg so definitely getting any back back on the show. But I get the sense that Jake's followed his love of the water and connected that with his travels. And he's very much a water man because he's a spear fisherman and yeah, let's spend time on boats. But I get the sense he's done an awful lot of travels. Just because he was going surfing somewhere what a great way to connect do you find I can't read the name of that Doc was that documentary? We watched something generation generation Rob Machado and all the all the famous American guys. Oh, is it like the momentum momentum, momentum generated beautiful film that but I was interested to know that they talked about when they first started surfing in Hawaii. And these guys were all like already super pro super crazy Californian surfers. But they said when they got to Hawaii, there was a real sense of tribalism, with the waves. You know, the Hawaiians essentially weren't all that chuffed about all these, you know, these white guys? Yeah. Smashing beer cans on their on their heads and whatever they were doing. But there were there was there wasn't exactly the welcome mat that you might expect. Is it like that? In all countries when it comes to surfing, because I get the impression there is a little bit of tribalism.
Evan Rilling 1:06:52
Yeah, I mean, in surfing, we caught localism. And most spots with a good wave are people that have served for a generation, you get that I just went to sumo recently. And I served with a couple of local kids there. And there's like, none of that and just good vibes. They're like stoked to have somebody to serve
Martin O'Toole 1:07:14
with nice, so you will welcome.
Evan Rilling 1:07:16
Yeah, super welcome.
Martin O'Toole 1:07:17
But it was that was because cuz you're almost seven foot tall? No, no way. They were arguing with this,
Evan Rilling 1:07:22
because they're, you know, it's new to them. And their energy is so pure around it. They're just like, wow, this is an amazing thing. And it's not. I mean, I think a lot of that localism comes from a limited resource. There's only so many waves. And only so many guys are gonna get a wave where these kids, you know, most of the time I surfing alone, and they're just happy to have someone to surf with. So it's just, it's really refreshing to be around back as I said, Awesome. Yeah, that sounds really nice.
Martin O'Toole 1:07:53
Yeah, imagine we probably find yourself immersed immersing in that culture in a whole different way. Because you're all in the sea on the wave on the boards.
Evan Rilling 1:08:01
Yeah, we became friends. I let one of the kids read my board. And he was like, really happy because they had like old boards. And then I gave him some wax. And they're like stuff.
Martin O'Toole 1:08:10
Because I guess you can't even get wax that it's hard for them. They get it. Yeah. Interesting. Maybe we can set up some sort of a plastic fur wax charity arrangement in trade? Yeah, yeah. Just thinking of the
Evan Rilling 1:08:25
Yeah, for sure.
Martin O'Toole 1:08:27
Okay, so what have we talked about? We've talked about everything. Yeah. Apart from one thing, we haven't talked about Evan. Maybe we should just end the podcast. Just messing with you. One thing we haven't talked about is your new cookbook. Yes. Now, since we are on camera, I'm gonna actually show you this. So this is Evans new cookbook retreat. And actually, having been involved with certainly providing our opinion on the book, in its early stages, we read it, obviously. And a lot of your wonderful stories are in here out there. Which is one of the things I really enjoyed about the book. Obviously, not withstanding the fact that he's got some some recipes in it. Yeah. And that's the bit that Jules wants me to enjoy about the book.
Evan Rilling 1:09:18
The rest she wants you to cook for her.
Julia Malcolmson 1:09:21
Hint, hint, come on, get in the kitchen.
Martin O'Toole 1:09:24
I might get involved with. So tell us all about your cookbook.
Evan Rilling 1:09:27
Yeah. So the cookbook, it's called retreat. And then it started when I was cooking for a lot of retreats, people requesting recipes. And I was like, Alright, I got to start writing recipes. So I started writing them and then as I was doing that, and in the process, it kind of required me to go deeper and go like, Okay, what am I sharing here? And a lot of it for me is about connection as I spoke about earlier, and this concept of taking a retreat from our daily life. Life, and a retreat from our routine. And maybe the thing where I'm going, I don't have enough time and go, Hey, I'm gonna make time and have three hours where I can cook a meal and share it with my families. And with that, like in a, an actual retreat, like a yoga retreat, or men's or women's retreat, there's all kinds of retreats. That's what people are doing, they're stepping out of their everyday life, and they're going, Okay, I'm gonna take three days or a week or however long. And generally, I'm going to work on some part of myself, and to take this time to like, reassess, and have a new experience. And in that new experience, most people find that they're a lot happier, because generally, a retreat space is a space of connection. And it's a space where some of the rules and ideas of our regular society don't exist, or there's different different rules that exists that make people feel good, because they connected, they can share more deeply, they can be more authentic. So what I wanted to do is take those teachings from a retreat and the food that I cook, and that experience, which the people on the retreat, always like want to take home with them, because they love it so much. And then they go back to their regular life, and they want to bring some of that back. So the idea of this book is to, like transmit those teachings, so someone can create their own little retreat in their home, in not in the sense of like a yoga retreat or something, and it could just be an hour, but it's like a retreat out of their normal way of thinking, and their normal way of being and go, Hey, I'm going to take some time and connect with this food, connect with my family, cook something, eat something, and create a little different reality for this hour or for this day and, and see what how they might want to adjust their life based on that, because you can by doing that, we can learn a lot, because generally, most humans are kind of running in a robotic cycle where we're doing the same things where I'm just saying that, so if we can like go, Hey, Alright, I'm gonna like, not do that for an hour a day, then we can get some perspective and go, Oh, my life might be a lot more fun if I did this thing more often. So
Martin O'Toole 1:12:22
I suppose to you is cooking a form of meditation?
Evan Rilling 1:12:28
Yeah, I mean, it's a for me, meditation is a space where I'm, like exploring my inner world, and generally exploring things that are uncomfortable within myself to help see the truth and kind of free them. Were cooking is a meditation in the sense of like, I'm very present when I'm cooking. And the more present we are, when we're cooking, the more connected and the better, better the food. And it really is a process that where I use all of my senses, so I'm like, and when I'm teaching people also, that's one of the first things I teach is like, how to use the senses. If you're going to connect like, okay, touch it, see it, what does it look like? Can you see the energy, smell it, feel it? Listen to it. So it's getting present and in tune with all the senses. So in that way, it's a meditation
Julia Malcolmson 1:13:22
is a really refreshing way to see like, we all have to cook meals, you know, we have to eat every day. Yeah. And I suppose you have the opportunity to say, well, instead of saying, I have to go and cook dinner, yeah, I get to go and spend an hour connecting with the foods, creating beautiful dishes, putting my love into it. Yeah. And then either just mindfully eating that myself or sharing it with my loved ones. And just having that kind of slight mindset change. Yeah, for most things in our day just makes such a difference, isn't it? Yeah, it's
Evan Rilling 1:13:52
huge. And because we do kind of have to eat unless we're breatharians it is sort of a thing where like, Okay, I gotta eat my three meals. So it's, it's great to shift out of that and go, Oh, cool. I get to cook this, and what do I get to eat today, I want to try something new. Like, I'm excited to learn about this and come into contact with new experiences,
Martin O'Toole 1:14:14
and create a sense of enjoyment out of cooking, as opposed to, as you say, consider it as rigmarole and a process that one doesn't really want to engage in. Yeah. One of the things I loved about your book is you have these little characters. So there's Yeah, that your, for one of the better words your spiritual connection with with the earth and with food, I think really, and with humans, I think really comes through in the book and one of the ways it does so is by these beautiful little spirit guides. Yeah. I wonder if you could tell us tell the folks at home about the spirit guides and what they do.
Evan Rilling 1:14:52
Yeah, sure. So as I kind of developed myself as a chef and my connect Question. I started connecting with different spirit guides. And one of them actually was, it was interesting story was, I was driving through the Central Valley, which is where they do like really large scale agriculture. And that was when I first got a really strong message to start growing my own food and learning how to do that. And as I was growing my own food, I started connecting with the spirit helper that I would see as this like kind of old, the grandfather from Amazon, that was like cooking this big pot of medicine. And so that kind of opened my field that like, Oh, I'm like, there's these other unseen beings that are like, kind of helping me on this journey and helping me as I'm cooking and, and then also, as I like, got to know, some plants really well like, taking care of them and cooking with them a lot. Then those spirits, I started connecting with more. And for me, it's like when I'm cooking, I'll just hear a little bit like check the oven or like, like, oh, a little more of that, or, and I'll, I'll kind of, it's this little communication that's going on. There's a sprites, yeah, that helps make the food really good and helps me do a great job. And I'm working with them. It's like my a team. Basically, it's a small team. And so I included these drawings represent that. And they're throughout the book with the tips. And so each time is a tip that was one of the Spirit helpers. And I invite the readers or even the listeners at home, just to be open to the possibility that that could exist, and that you could create that connection. Because I didn't always have that. I didn't always have that awareness. And it's something that just kind of developed and then I was like, What's going on here? Oh, there's like this other things happening?
Martin O'Toole 1:16:55
I'm channelling Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that's a lovely way to get in touch with your intuition, isn't it? And just to open yourself to the idea that, Okay, listen for it, and it might just, you might get some messages. Yeah,
Evan Rilling 1:17:07
it's quite cool to ask, you know, like, Oh, should I put how many bayleaf Should I put in and I'll just get out three. Okay.
Martin O'Toole 1:17:16
So I need to, I need to take a few steps back in the process and say, Should I cook maybe I you should set up some little, little speakers around the living room whispering to cook. Why don't you cook butternut squash and connect with it? You know, in every episode, I should say of course. Welcome to Season Two has totally forgot to say Welcome to Season Two how to die happy. But in every episode, we have a little section called Be my guest. Which is where we invite the audience members to record a question or two for guests doesn't always happen. But on this occasion, we do have one for you. I'm gonna my glasses on now. I'm gonna have to edit that but
Julia Malcolmson 1:18:26
I'm going to read it for you.
1:18:27
Martin O'Toole 1:18:51
There's a whole song but we probably won't play the whole thing. But that is the wonderful, Dwayne forest. Here's the question.
Colleen 1:18:59
So Evan, my question to you is, how do you think your surfing life integrates with your cookbook? How is it all integrated together? Your cookbook your serve life you live in Bali? Like what is the integration? And how does that look to you?
Martin O'Toole 1:19:26
Good question. Good question. Yeah, thank you listener.
Evan Rilling 1:19:30
So a few things came to mind. One of them is that my surfing as I was saying has led me to travel around the world. And in that process, I've learned a lot more about connection and how I build different relationships like in Bali. They have quite a spiritual connection and a way of like offering in life. And so that actually was like 12 years ago, I was in Bali and it kind of Right before I went, I was in Indonesia right before I had that experience, where I started opening to the spirit helpers, actually. So I think travelling kind of opened my mind to these different foods and these different ways of looking at things. And in a way, it's like a little retreat, right? You go into this different reality where they have different beliefs, different rules. So that would be one way with the surfing in the food. In the future, I really want to do a TV show like a Netflix show or something of that sort. That includes like travelling, surfing food, and connecting with indigenous cultures. So that's like my dream to have all those kinds of passions come into one thing
Martin O'Toole 1:20:43
will be quiet. That would be an unusual format, wouldn't it? Has anybody ever done that before?
Evan Rilling 1:20:47
Not that I know.
Julia Malcolmson 1:20:48
I can see. I think that would work really? Well.
Evan Rilling 1:20:51
Yeah, I feel it really strong and have a very clear vision. I don't know exactly how to get there. They're like,
Martin O'Toole 1:20:57
oh, let's start in the show. Yeah, let's, let's do a shout out to anyone who knows anyone who knows a commissioner at Netflix or Amazon or? Yeah, you know, any of the VOD service broadcaster Evan wants to make a show please. Sounds like a good idea. I'll help him right treatment. If that assists. That's awesome. Let's see if we can get your your show on the on the road.
Evan Rilling 1:21:20
Yeah, it's a big dream of mine. It's something and I was I was quite afraid of being on the camera actually. I was like really bad I'd be like, but I've worked on it I feel more comfortable and I'm ready to actualize the dream and also I feel like it's a way to really like share some positive messages with larger scale community so
Martin O'Toole 1:21:41
nice idea well I for one will watch that show. What's What are you going to call it
Evan Rilling 1:21:47
eat surf pray
Martin O'Toole 1:21:49
Of course. So for for anyone who's who isn't aware of the book and movie Eat Pray Love, which was what she called the Lady Elizabeth Gilbert, Elizabeth Gilbert, who wrote that so that's a direct reference to two barley of course because Eat Pray Love was was the story she wrote, which included the third part of which was all about her life and barley. Little, little fun fact for you. After after that movie came out. And Barley was just absolutely overwhelmed, apparently by lots of people who wanted to have that. That whole experience, I guess. fallen in love with Javier, what's his name? Have you about him? In case you're listening heavier? Yeah, the got quite tedious very quickly, apparently, for a lot of the locals and I don't think this was a no brainer. I can't remember exactly where it was. But they started selling T shirts that said Eat Pray leave. Okay, we really appreciated this. This cash injection and you know, this increases and tourism numbers. But now you can you go home, please. Yeah. That's a great, great name for for sure. So what So what's next for you, then you've obviously been super busy. Putting this together this wonderful book, which incidentally, you can buy online and there's a link on our websites. If you go on how to die happy podcast.com forward slash on dash that dash show, scroll in through the season two listings of our wonderful guests, you'll find Evan, then you click through from there, you'll be able to buy this book. But what's next?
Evan Rilling 1:23:35
Yeah, so I was just tuning into that this morning, actually. So I'm glad you asked. I'm gonna do a live class online class, to support people in creating a more positive relationship with food. So that's really my next exploration is teaching about that. And helping people create a relationship where they're eating healthy food that they really love and feel good about it. And it's like, exciting, positive situation. And that could help people with like, really any kind of eating. I don't know if disorder is the right word, but like, say, maybe someone that's overweight, or someone that's not eating enough, or someone that just is bored with their food. Switching that relationship into a positive one is really powerful, and can really help change someone's life. So
Martin O'Toole 1:24:22
nice. I think there's a I don't know how you do this. And I would love I will watch how you do it. But I think there's a wonderful message to get out there to people. And it's 10 fold isn't it is it's talking about this, this misnomer we have about not having enough time, but it's also really about considering what you consume. And this is something we talk about all the time on the show because we're not just I'm not just talking about food. I'm talking about what you listen to what you watch, the environment you're in the energy that you soak up in the social connections that you have all of these consumptions over here. Huge physiological effect on mind, body and soul. And I think many, many of us are completely unaware of this. And so I welcome what you want to do in terms of in terms of changing people's relationship with food. But I also, I think there's an opportunity to have conversations about what is it you're eating? And where did it come from? And that's why we really wanted to get you on the show. You're growing it, you made the soil to grow it to then cook it. So you have you know, the, the heritage of that of that particular meal. Yeah. And I think there's what we're what do you think instead of what what I think, what do you think, are the opportunities for us to start talking to people about single use plastics, synthetic foods, synthetic sweeteners, you know, that the junk that we're putting in our body, but we don't realise it's junk? Because it's nicely packaged? And it's for sale? So it's been approved by some, you know, health body? Yeah. And some government authority. So how do we how do we get out that problem?
Evan Rilling 1:26:13
Well, the first thing that came is that you're kind of a marketing expert. Correct? Well,
Martin O'Toole 1:26:22
once upon a time,
Evan Rilling 1:26:23
okay. So for me, it's looking at how did that problem start? And like, why did we start thinking, it's good to eat? Food? That's chemicals in GMO? And why did we start thinking it's good to have all these chemicals in our house or agree to that? Why did we go Oh, yeah, sure. I'm gonna put on this deodorant, and it's full of chemicals and can give me cancer. Why did we agree to eat food in the same way? That's junk food, and it's toxic for us? And the main reason the way that that shift was made, because at one point in time people did not want to do that. is marketing.
Martin O'Toole 1:27:05
I'm the devil.
Evan Rilling 1:27:07
Well, so So how do we shift it? We need to start for all marketers. No, we need to start marketing the other way back and bring the awareness back and movements where people are like, Oh, it's way cooler. They like, eat organic, local food. It's way more awesome to have all natural products in my house. And I love having beaches that don't have plastic. So yeah, I'm not I'm gonna use a reusable bag. I like systems where I don't need to use that and just kind of bring that awareness and also make it cool. Yes, actually, I'd like oh, yeah, that's rad. Of course, I'm not gonna do that. Why would I want to destroy myself? And? Well,
Martin O'Toole 1:27:47
it's a really fair question. But but and, and it sounds like we're being sarcastic. But but there are a, there's a huge population on this planet that is destroying itself and destroying the planet. And you're right. Well, I was I was joking a little bit. But at the same time, as one of the reasons why I wanted to get out of marketing was because I felt as though I was part of the problem. I was part of a system that was essentially, marketing. Advertising is programming. Yes. It's designed to convince people to buy stuff that they neither need nor want. Yeah. And that's a no sorry for all my old buddies in the advertising industry as a pretty miserable idea. Certainly where I'm sitting now. So I think, yeah, I'm, I'm a convert. I'm very much more about how do we explain to people the the toxic effect that these things are having on your body? And on the planet? Perhaps that's where we start? Is that where we start? Is it in education?
Julia Malcolmson 1:28:48
Yeah, well, as you said, you know, as I've been pointed out a moment ago, you can use those skills as, as a marketer, turn it around. So you've gone from marketing it this way. And you go, Wait, let's market the good stuff. Let's get back back on everybody. And so they start seeing the benefit of reusing their water bottle every day. And you just take one little step a day, or even one a week. You know, this week, I'm going to stop using reusable, single use plastic bottles next week, I'm going to switch out something in my house, baby steps.
Martin O'Toole 1:29:17
Yeah. Well, with that in mind, then let's just talk about couple of these things. Because, of course, I have flipped the script. Got this podcast is called How to die happy podcast, right? Well, this isn't marketing. But this is a an amplification platform where people can talk about this stuff. And hopefully some people are going to learn stories through stories and practical utility. So Well, let's start with GMO. What is GMO for the audience members out there that think GMO is good. What is it and why is it not good?
Evan Rilling 1:29:47
Thinking? I mean, it's genetically modified. So it's basically taking something from its natural state and my modifying it, for my understanding, generally, the reasoning for doing that is so it can grow more of something without getting affected by like pests and diseases, and maybe also grow bigger. It's basically to increase production. I mean, for me the issue with it's tampering with nature. And so it's going, Okay, this sound natural things, and we're going to, like, tweak the makeup of nature. And then what happens is the pollen of that spreads to other natural varieties of food and start changing it so that, I mean, we know that's an impact, but we don't really know like, the large scale, in the future, how big of an impact that is going to have. We know that it's not really good for us to eat, it's not good for the body. And when we don't know, because there's animals are gonna eat it, it really can have such a large impact. And it's, it's a huge unknown. And so it's quite risky in that
Martin O'Toole 1:31:07
way. Yeah. When you mess with the seed of a plant and the mass produced that plant. Yeah, you're messing with an entire ecosystem. Yeah. And I, I will venture to guess that the creators of this GMO seed, really didn't think that far ahead, in terms of in terms of the ramifications for an entire ecosystem. I might be wrong. And if you are one of these engineers, please do. Contact us with, you know, the study that you did. But yeah, it feels like it's, it's tampering. Yeah. And if you're known,
Evan Rilling 1:31:44
from my understanding, and I haven't studied a tonne of this. It's also an attempt to take ownership of food. So because somebody created a GMO, they can go, this is mine. I own this. And I don't know the details of this. I've just heard about it that when the GMO food pollinates another food, there's some kind of way where they can sue the other person.
Martin O'Toole 1:32:08
Yeah, because they got the patent. Yeah, patent on their food. I mean, so it's, essentially it's Welcome to 2022, where you can patent a seed.
Evan Rilling 1:32:18
Yeah, and it's a it's an attempt at having control over our whole food system. And we can see attempts have more control with the vaccines and trying to mandate that we have to get that there are forms of basically like taking control and power. And so something really positive that we can do is create seed banks, we can buy heirloom organic seeds, which are amazing. There's like tonnes of really cool varieties of food that most people have never seen or heard of that, like, look super beautiful, tastes delicious, and rich and nutrients. So storing seeds, growing food, supporting people that sell, grow and sell natural seeds. And yeah, for me, I do my best not to put GMO foods in my body. But I'm pretty sure I have put some in there.
Martin O'Toole 1:33:11
I understand from doing this detox programme that I recently and Jules did it as well. As I said, Jules is a lot more aware than I am, but understand it's often quite difficult for us to know. So for example, I was drinking soy milk. I quit drinking dairy. Dairy and and that's I've asked my body about that we like it, we're happy about not drinking dairy. So I was drinking a lot of soy milk. And that was because I'm in I'm in Indonesia. So if you're eating a plant based diet in Indonesia, slash barley, folks, most of the lot of the USA local dishes, they they either have tofu or tempeh and all soy. And I only just recently learned that all of the soy, most of the soy here isn't actually from here. It's GMO soy from China. Is that correct?
Julia Malcolmson 1:34:05
Yeah. I don't know where it's from. But it's all GMO. It's really hard to get non GMO soy. Yeah, I
Martin O'Toole 1:34:09
might be absolutely making that up. It might. It might be from here, but it is GMO soy, in which case I had no idea but I was absolutely loading my body with soy. Yeah. Unbeknownst to me with GMO. Yeah. So I think there are lots of situations like that and it plays into everything that you're seeing in this book, and it plays into everything that you say as a, as a being. And I think that is it's it's time for us all to accept responsibility. Instead of abrogating that responsibility to them. They the system, the complex, whatever you want to call it, the government, the the medical authorities, the agricultural authorities. We know that doesn't work and when and we know it's a it's a wonderful way to have a to propagate a broken societal system. It's time for us all to take absolutely 100% responsibility over what we put in our bodies, in our mouth, in our eyes, in our ears, the whole shebang. Now, I'm on a soapbox right now, but I don't know, perhaps it's because of all these wonderful guests we've had on this show, but we're having a same conversation, but from a different angle, right all the time. And the only thing I can think is, is to do what you know, the likes of you are doing and that is to say, now, man, I can't do this anymore. This stuff is giving me cancer. And it is, by the way, you know, this, all of these these modified products and these household products, and as you said, the deodorant, you know, with the heavy metals, this, this is actually the root of sickness, a lot of stuff. So we got to take control of it. And anyway, we're going to change anything is to do it for ourselves and for our families, and then for our communities. Yeah.
Julia Malcolmson 1:35:56
Okay, start with yourself.
Evan Rilling 1:35:58
Yeah, and we all have that power to start making little shifts. And I think a big a big part of it, too, is in a way, like coming to a place of acceptance, like, okay, the, the system is very fucked up. And they're not, in my opinion, are not looking at for the highest good of the earth and the people. But coming from a place of hate, and going back, you guys, like, that also is just feeding us very similar energy. So like, for myself, the more I've been able to, like, accept it in in some way. And even though I don't really want to, but there's like more of an acceptance like, Okay, this is our situation. Now what something positive that I can do in the world. And for me, that was like the food forest and the cookbook, and it was like, okay, these things can make a positive shift. That's something that I feel like I can accomplish and do in my life. And that can grow bigger and make a bigger positive shift and inspire people. And so I think it's like, doing our best to make peace with the situation, understand it to the best of our ability, and really see the truth of what's going on the best we can, because it's a lot of lies and confusion. And then going, what some positive actions that I can do to help the world like the Earth and the people and the animals and the environment and make it a better situation for everyone.
Martin O'Toole 1:37:30
And beautiful, beautifully put, by the way, and that's all we can do. I think, yeah, I'm totally with you. Perhaps for some people, when they go through this phase, or through this process of understanding some of these wider issues, there will be frustration and anger for some some Yeah, I might have been angry. Okay, I had it.
Julia Malcolmson 1:37:51
I've had it, yeah.
Martin O'Toole 1:37:57
But you're right. If we, if we stay in that, if we stay in that energy, we stay in a vibration, we're essentially just inviting another Drama Triangle of some description. So the best thing we can possibly do is say, Okay, this is the state of it. Now, what am I going to do to change it? Yeah, I'm not suggesting what was through sitting around this table are going to change that change the whole world, but, and it's a cliche, but and I don't know who said it, but they said Be the change. You want to see the see in the world. Yeah. So if if those three are all doing that, and then we're vibing that way to 10 people around us and suddenly, actually, we're having a wonderfully positive effect on a few people. Yes, by finally taking responsibility, having that awareness, taking responsibility, and then saying, Well, what can I do? In my, my little environment to change some of this? Yeah. And that's one of the many reasons why we're going to get you on the show, buddy, because you are doing it, you're doing a profound thing in the food forest. The people who get involved with Alou forests are having an incredible time. And you can see them we've been to we've been to watch these people. And not only are they absolutely, you know, resonating, because that because they are actually growing their own food and salt in the lung, but I think it's that whole community feel as well. And it's the energy that you bring to it. So, so thank you for that. Yeah. Thanks for this amazing cookbook that everyone's gonna buy off the back of listen to this podcast.
Julia Malcolmson 1:39:20
Yeah. And it's way more than a cookbook. Yeah, it
Martin O'Toole 1:39:23
is. Yeah. And it's beautifully illustrated as well. By the way, there are lots of illustrations in great photography in there. So to have the extra reasons why you need to buy it. And apart from that, thank you for for taking the time to come to see us today. I've really enjoyed speaking.
Julia Malcolmson 1:39:38
Thank you so much. Yes,
Evan Rilling 1:39:39
yeah. Bye nice. I didn't rap
Martin O'Toole 1:39:49
Oh, do you want to wrap to the end? Because we can edit that in?
Evan Rilling 1:39:51
Yeah, let's Yes. Can you guys do a beat?
Martin O'Toole 1:39:54
yeah, perhaps I'll, so would you like to say anything before we go? Yeah. Sounds like Afrobeat sounds like he's gonna be rap
Evan Rilling 1:40:03
All right, I'm gonna do a recap rap show here we go check it check go yeah we got the beat I got my feet in the earth or thrown food I'm just a dude surfin man I hear the sound of the birds tripping yeah we worked in to win our best to make a change the arrange these strange things I take it back to the heart centre as an interest to open a new paradigm off the damn back to the Apple check it out I'm not drinking no Snapple the jury though I'm making it homemade when I'm cooking my burrito, serving it with the children I'm feeling good feeling positive vibration, peace and patience. I'm not waiting I'm taking action now. cooking up some rocket cam I got a community meal for free Oh, that's the deal. I got my new cookbook receipt as I dropped the beat your mobile app through will a named Blackfeet and the food forests will have came through with the cool chorus check it out how to die happy rappy I know Laffy Taffy, check it out. These are like tunes from Rafi when I was a children till in the positive Feelin so I'm gonna go out
Martin O'Toole 1:41:16
That was awesome.
Evan Rilling 1:41:26
Thanks for having me.
Martin O'Toole 1:41:27
Thank you for coming
Evan Rilling 1:41:28
honouring me
