SUMMARY KEYWORDS
food, bali, work, incredible, plant based, love, plant, chef, mental health, cacao, lauren, people, grain, based, years, book, vegetables, talk, making, literally, Alchemy, Lion’s Mane, adaptogens
SPEAKERS
Julia Malcolmson, Martin O'Toole, Lauren Lovatt
Julia Malcolmson 00:00
Martin O'Toole 00:00
I can't remember the lyrics that you just sang. Even though it was literally what 10 seconds ago.
Julia Malcolmson 00:52
A care, free life.
Martin O'Toole 00:53
My short term memory is absolutely screwed.
Julia Malcolmson 00:57
But don't you say yes. I'm currently your your short term memory you
Martin O'Toole 01:00
you are my short term memory with what are the lyrics? Don't you want to live carefree miles from the rat race? Barefoot dancing barefoot and dancing? Well, we definitely live carefree miles from the rat race and there's plenty of barefoot action going on. Although I am not a dancer.
Julia Malcolmson 01:18
You're not I can't get you on the dance floor.
Martin O'Toole 01:20
No, but you were dancing the other day when I was sitting here at my desk doing some work. Oh, it was and the heavens opened because it's the rainy season here.
Julia Malcolmson 01:31
So when it rains out in the tropics, you want to be out in the rain. So I ran out into the garden, danced around the pool. A little tap dancing. Naked. I was very naked and jumped into the pool. Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 01:43
yeah, it was cool. It was funny. It was nice to watch you being impish. There's a fly on my pop filter.
Julia Malcolmson 01:51
Is it annoying?
Martin O'Toole 01:52
Well, it's right next to my mouth. So it's kind of a little bit distracting. Anyway, you guys can't hear the fly. So who is on this week's episode? Jules.
Julia Malcolmson 02:07
This week, we have got Lauren Lovatt. And she is an incredible plant based chef, among many other things that she does. And she is about to have a book released called Mind food plant based recipes for positive mental health.
Martin O'Toole 02:24
Yeah, we talked, we talked about mental health and mental illness quite a lot actually, didn't we? Lauren, told us a little bit of her life story and what inspired her to write the book. And it was I think, given what happened to her, it was an incredible transfer an incredibly transformative approach and a way to cope with this particular life event. And I think what she's done in this book, which obviously we've we've had a sneak preview of is is a wonderful thing.
Julia Malcolmson 02:59
Yeah, and it's not, it's not even just about the recipes. It's, you know, talking about how what we put into our body is so important for the health of our mind. And it also there's also other sort of tools and tips within the book to live a healthy mindful life.
Martin O'Toole 03:17
Yeah, and we talked about consumption as a whole, didn't we, in terms of, it's not just what we eat and drink that affects our physiology and our mental health. It's the other things around us that we consume. Yeah, all in all, it was a really, really great conversation. And I think hopefully, you'll find that Lauren's thrown in some really simple options to get involved with with more creative plant based cooking. And Laura and I found it was an incredibly energetic and lovely person to talk to, and also very passionate,
Julia Malcolmson 04:02
so passionate, her passion is infectious.
Martin O'Toole 04:04
When we do this podcast, we also have a video feed so we can see one another. I think just because it helps with the the exchange, but you guys won't be able to see that, unfortunately. But she she was just lit up every time she talks about food. And she
Julia Malcolmson 04:20
she did which was a challenge for you my love.
Martin O'Toole 04:23
It was yes, because I was fasting that day. As I've already mentioned in another episode, I'm on this stupid 43 day detox, which is really kind of messing with all of the things I eat and drink, making you a little bit grumpy. It's making me super grumpy. And yeah, and not a great podcast presenter if I'm gonna be brutally honest, because it's also quite exhausting with these IV drips and so on and so forth. So when she started talking about the intricacies of her How to Make banoffee pie plant based on the NAAFI pie, man alive.
Julia Malcolmson 05:06
We talked a lot about vegan cheese. And we talked about vegan
Martin O'Toole 05:09
cheese. I can't eat that either. Yeah, it was a really cool conversation. I think the other the other lovely thing was that she, she throws in a few hints and tips as to how people might start to reframe their relationship with vegetables. For those of you out there who see vegetables as an afterthought,
Julia Malcolmson 05:33
yeah, and it was useful for you, wasn't it? Because you've since becoming plant based, struggled a little bit to find the inspiration for cooking.
Martin O'Toole 05:41
Yeah, yeah, very much so. And that's why mine food is going to be a helpful book for me, actually. And I also I'd like to because she Lauren also teaches at the Academy here, didn't she the alchemy Academy?
Julia Malcolmson 05:54
Yeah. Which is one of our favourite restaurants in Bali.
Martin O'Toole 05:57
Yeah, that's a total raw food restaurant. So. So yeah, I'm gonna get involved with some of that, I think. Well, it was it was a great conversation, I have to make some a couple of apologies up front. First off, as you know, it's the rainy season here in Bali, so it was hammering it down. So you can hear a lot of rain. But the more amusing noise pollution that we had on this, on this particular episode, was what
Julia Malcolmson 06:25
was the karaoke from the garage down the road?
Martin O'Toole 06:28
Karaoke from the garage down the road. So
Julia Malcolmson 06:31
our neighbours love their karaoke, which we've discovered since moving to this part of Bali,
Martin O'Toole 06:36
don't they? All of them. So right now, it's good lumen, which is a major religious festival here in Bali, and they do it twice a year. Gallium and Kuningan. It's a 10 day affair. So every day and night there is some sort of festivities and because the Balinese really know how to party and it's a really cool thing, actually, isn't it? Because it's it's all it's men. So the right 10 Men all sitting in this garage, all getting drunk, smoke and chain smoking. And singing karaoke. Yeah. Really bad karaoke, and really loud, really, really loud. So I have to apologise for the karaoke in the background, which can be heard in the early stages of this production is known as a little something to the episode. Yes. Well, we were not in a studio or we will record from from our home. So. So thanks for your patience yet again. Well, should we get on with it then?
Julia Malcolmson 07:42
Yeah, let's jump in and listen to Lauren. Okay, this
Martin O'Toole 07:44
is Lauren Lovatt. Lauren, if you could only have one plant based cheese for the rest of your life. What would it be?
Lauren Lovatt 07:55
Oh, that's actually an quite an easy one. So there's this amazing cheese maker in London called Palace culture. So guy called Mirko, who's an incredible vegan cheese maker. And I was lucky enough to record a class with him recently and sample all his cheeses, like the whole range. And there was one in particular called some something goatee and, and it's a vegan goat's cheese, so it's made by inoculating. I think it's just cashew based, but it might be cashew and almond. But inoculating cashews with a specific type of mould and it is honestly like the spitting image of goat's cheese. And that's, I still love goat cheese because it's so versatile. You can cook with it in so many different ways. And so yeah, this this particular cheese kind of blew my mind so it would it would be that one.
Martin O'Toole 08:46
I love goat's cheese. I kind of miss goat cheese although I don't miss i I only went plant based a couple of years ago so I don't miss dairy cheese as much as I thought I would. I was one of those typical, you know Matan and dairy sort of eaters who who always had a I wouldn't say disdain but distinct lack of interest in in plant based diets because I just thought, I mean, how could you possibly do anything that that would replicate my roast beef fill it or my, my whatever seafood, spaghetti, or my cheese and it was really all about cheese. I was a huge cheese lover. I was brought up in it in a cheese loving family that said, Wow, this trousers isn't plant based cheese got interesting.
Julia Malcolmson 09:34
It's incredible. And I don't think I think that a lot of actual cheese eaters out there if you gave them a plant based cheese board. I don't think they'd noticed the difference. I
Martin O'Toole 09:42
think I agree with you that the other reason why I'm asking this, of course is because I'm three weeks into a 43 day detox, which means I can't eat anything nice.
Julia Malcolmson 09:54
Well, this call is going to be extra hard for you because he actually is fasting
Martin O'Toole 09:58
and fasting as well. really,
Lauren Lovatt 10:00
oh my gosh, but try not to make it too. Oh, it's gonna
Martin O'Toole 10:04
kind of be because we're going to talk about some of your recipes at some point. And yeah, I'm doing I'm doing this mad detox. I had a pretty hedonistic life for 20 years and I was an alcoholic and cocaine addict. And I recently found out have cirrhosis of the liver. So I'm doing this hardcore 100% Natural Treatment detox for 43 days, which is going to flush the liver out and also do a heavy metal detox and a parasite detox, but the liver flush is actually taking place tonight again, isn't it? It's a weekly occurrence.
Lauren Lovatt 10:40
Oh my gosh, well, like I know, I know, a lot of details about these kinds of things. Like I've done different fasts and detoxes, especially when I've been in Bali. And yeah, I mean, an experience but I mean, also, you know, when you have that kind of window of time, and you know, that you've just got to kind of push through, then it's, you know, hopefully it'll be worth it because it's always transformative. Hey,
Martin O'Toole 11:06
I keep telling myself that it's just
Julia Malcolmson 11:08
extra hard in Bali because the vegan offerings are so amazing.
Lauren Lovatt 11:12
Well, yeah, but yeah, but at least you know, you'll be able to break the fast with like, the most beautiful Balinese vegan meal
Martin O'Toole 11:20
some point well it kinda because we so we used to live we lived actually in ganja which isn't far from the alchemy Academy right?
Julia Malcolmson 11:33
Yeah, I think so. And alchemy is one of our favourite restaurants in Bali. We absolutely love it. And I think your favourite is the banoffee pie.
Martin O'Toole 11:42
Wow, that we love that.
Lauren Lovatt 11:44
That's an awfully pie. That's game changing. I think Do you know what I think that's one of my favourite things in Bali.
Martin O'Toole 11:49
Why would you why would you bother I've in any other desert other than the the alchemy coffee pie. I guess I'm a creature of habit you see when i is much to Jules amusement because we go we do well, we eat well. And we in we've eaten in some of the best restaurants in Bali, I suspect. But every time we go back I buy just always know what I want. Because if I discover that something is super tasty, for example, the alchemy banoffee pie. Why would I want to replace it with some with something else? That might not be as good?
Julia Malcolmson 12:22
Because there's so many delicious things to try No.
Martin O'Toole 12:26
Typical man. But yeah, so we discovered that you were you were at the you're sorry. You're an instructor at alchemy Academy. Right?
Lauren Lovatt 12:35
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I, I wrote and teach the alchemy Academy like level two class. So it's in kind of advanced raw food.
Martin O'Toole 12:45
Which is I'm assuming pretty pioneering stuff. Because from what we've seen in an eating in the restaurant, it feels to me like a lot of the food there. Albeit simple, is still pioneering and its creativity.
Lauren Lovatt 12:58
Totally, I mean, how can we, like you say is one of those places you go to? And I think it is, you know, a lot of people that go to Bali alchemy is it's amazing. Like it really does. You know, they they're very, very good at, you know, transforming banoffee pie into this amazing, like kind of raw creation, but the way so Shanti is the founder, and she's the kind of creator of alchemy Academy, and the way she thinks about food is just amazing. Like, I don't know if you know how alchemy started. But are you doing it? So it started, literally, I mean, she has an amazing story. But in brief about alchemy, it's started out just as a juice bar she got she was kind of teaching with a few kind of like, you know, well known kind of rural chefs over there and like working with them and had the opportunity to open her own place. It started out, as I think just a juice bar. And then, you know, it was so popular, they kind of you know, like they were, I think in the same place, but in a very small space. And was so popular, they had the idea to grow it and it was always like what she wanted to do. She's like, I really just want like a salad. But I like where can I go and get this kind of thing. So she always, you know, is very motivated and motivated. And also, when ever we give advice to students, she's like, when you're trying to create something like think about what you would want, like, what are you looking for? And so she built the salad bar. It's, I mean, as you'll notice, it's amazing. I mean, you've got like all these little toppings, like incredible dressings. Such a variety and this is like no salad bar you've ever seen. I mean, it's so delicious. And like they use really great ingredients. And then she's obviously built out the kind of like dessert side they've recently added a breakfast bar. But, you know, you kind of almost have to see it to believe it because I think we're so used to like, you know, you hear like salad bar and you're like, okay, like I'm like Pizza Hut when I was a kid or something. And it's not like that, you know, but it's but yeah, so alchemy is she's really like taking these ideas. transform them like obviously now working with like different chefs and people and then so at alchemy Academy we so she has a level one which is kind of like it goes beyond cooking I mean that you know you're doing yoga and breath work in the mornings you're learning about fasting, detoxing, you're like learning about these key principles are kind of health. And then in level two, we talk more about how to turn this into a business concept. So we take kind of slightly more advanced techniques that might be like making like smoked carrots or making like foams or different ferments or anything. And then we also like guide the students to be able to create their own kind of like product business. Lots of vegan cheeses appear. And those Yeah, always some incredible ideas. So it's a really fun course to teach my stomachs.
Martin O'Toole 15:53
growling.
Julia Malcolmson 15:54
I know I really want an alchemy salad right now.
Lauren Lovatt 15:57
Oh, I want an Alchemy salad right now at least you're nearer than I am to that where you have to come and visit us.
Martin O'Toole 16:04
Well, that's what I was getting saved. So we were we were in ganja. which for those of you that have never been to Bali, that's kind of in the middle of the island. And then we went to live in Ottawa to in being in and again the food offering there is is is epic. Not so many 100% plant based venues, if any, I don't think
Julia Malcolmson 16:27
there's one there's a cafe plant based cafe.
Martin O'Toole 16:30
But But that said, a lot of the menus have got some really awesome plant based offerings. However, recently we moved to the to the very north of the island. So we are we're back in Bali, you know, 1975, right. In terms of development, so we traded in that, that smorgasbord of phenomenal culinary offerings for I guess, probably a little bit more authentic barley and piecing the peace and quiet that comes with that. I hasten to add to it it wasn't exactly hectic in Ottawa to which is the peninsula, as you probably know. Anyway, sorry I ramble. I'm just, I'm just thinking about when I can eat again.
Lauren Lovatt 17:17
Oh, I'm making you're making me like dream about when I can eat in Bali as well. It probably might be. Yeah, a little bit longer than your
Martin O'Toole 17:24
fast. Well, as Jules says, When you cut when you when you come back over, please do. Come and see us and perhaps we can do a trade off. We'll put you up and you can have dog cuddles from our two creatures in exchange for some cookery lessons.
Lauren Lovatt 17:39
Yeah, I'm definitely definitely into that we can create our own little mini cookery retreat. Perfect. We'll set it up. Sounds good.
Julia Malcolmson 17:48
So Lauren, I was gonna ask you, I'm having myself been vegetarian since I was a child and plant based for about seven years, I've really witnessed and noticed an exponential rise in an uptake for plant based foods and diets. And I kind of wondered what you thought is driving that?
Lauren Lovatt 18:07
Yeah, no, totally. It's It is really interesting to see. Because I yeah, I've been vegan for about seven years. And I was lucky. So when I first got into plant based food, it was, I mean, I'd been on my own kind of health journey for maybe three or four years before when I'd really started to understand the power of plants on predominantly our mental health, but also like our overall health, and my eyes have been open to kind of what was possible. So this is kind of like the end of a five year degree. I was like, I don't want to do this. I want to work in food. So I retrained as a chef, I started taking like lots of different courses, but I couldn't find anything plant based at the time I was literally you know, when you're like, I'm into this, but like, where's the information like, Where can I find out more like, Where can I learn. And I was lucky enough to find these kind of shorter courses and some amazing people and I started to kind of like work in food in any way I possibly could. And I was so lucky to meet someone that had created this kind of aspirational vegan pop up in a spa in London called asparagus ism. And she was she had a pub in my village that had a standalone vegan menu. This was the first time I'd ever seen it like seven ish years ago. And I was kind of working at the pub. I was like, How can I get involved in this asparagus and thing and then just one day literally, like, almost out of nowhere. She phoned me up and was like, we're going to open a space like near where we are in the Cotswolds. Do you want to get involved? And I was so lucky to I got involved. We set up the space design the menus, like had, like created a little team. It was amazing and I mean, over that time, we were working with the chef within weeks of us opening, the chef left, I had to become the chef. It was like a real roller coaster, but the people coming like at that. So we were doing like raw cakes. And I'd, which I'd been learning from different people kind of on the different course I'd been taking. And when we cooked, or when we served things like these raw cakes, people like raw cake, like what is a raw cake, like they, the concept was just alien. And I really noticed like over I mean, we were open for three years, but over the next year of us being opening, like sudden, suddenly like perceptions were really changing, like people would come they would know what a raw cake was, they were seeking out like raw chocolates, they were like, really understanding these kind of like, little kind of dishes and ideas that when you are kind of you know more in this world, you start to become really, like, familiar and fond of. But in that first year, I mean, it was when like the wellness scene in the UK was really kind of kicking off. And I'll always remember so many people coming in specifically being like, Have you heard of deliciously Ella? Do you like because it's you had this sweet potato brownies in her first book can do you know how to like do make those sweet potato brownies. And, you know, people were really starting to wake up to it. And it was because at that time, you know, the wellness industry was really starting to take shape, social media was just about starting, like Instagram had just begun, like, so I think, you know, then there was, that was a huge kind of starting point to this kind of whole movement.
Martin O'Toole 21:34
And it's, it seems now that it's certainly from my perspective, anyway, it may or may not be as much about people, people's conscious choices not to consume animals, because I think if we look at the likes of you, creating these incredible plant based dishes, there's a there's a significant argument to say, Oh, hang on a minute, if I can actually eat a plant based dish, which is just as if not even more super tasty, then well, I'm gonna do that, because it's, it's actually better for me. Is that, is that something that you, you hear from people?
Lauren Lovatt 22:13
Totally, I mean, it's, I think we're so it's such an exciting time now in the kind of like food world because it's, you know, so many incredible chefs have have really been part of that, like, you know, showing people what's possible, like, you know, whether it's like, you know, these vegan cheeses that are so familiar, but so exciting in their own way. And, you know, different dishes, different concepts, restaurants, it's, I think we've especially over here, and I mean, also, you know, in a bird in Bali, like people are totally, like, aware of and have experienced this kind of cuisine for themselves. And, you know, once you know that you're not missing out on anything, obviously, that's such a big thing football, I'm gonna miss cheese, I'm gonna miss this. But when you know that you're getting these flavours and textures and ingredients that you you want, then yeah, I think it's, you know, chefs and restaurants have been a huge part of that for people to be able to eat out, have menus that are just mind blowing. But then there's also, you know, the kind of social media side of things and actually, like, you know, seeing stuff that you're kind of like, whoa, like, what is this? I want to try it, you know, it's all of this is like reshaping how we see kind of veganism, plant based food. And yeah, it really shows people what's possible.
Martin O'Toole 23:37
And it's changed so rapidly. Well, if I if I think back to when I was a kid, I was born in the mid 70s. And unfortunately, me and most of my buddies how I'm going to be unfair to my deceased mother now. So rip, and I don't wish to wish to criticise Pat's cooking too much. But when I was a kid, the vegetables weren't just an afterthought. They were usually over boiled to the point of, you know, that kind of sort of greyness, I'm thinking I'm seeing green beans that sort of turned a bit grey rather than butter and smothered in butter and salt. Super soft. Oh, it's overcooked to the point of machinists. So I guess, I think how things have advanced and I'm sure there were plenty of people listening to this, thinking about our demographic who will be able to relate to the fact that vegetables weren't just an afterthought, afterthought. They were also strangely murdered.
Lauren Lovatt 24:46
Yeah, totally. I mean, that's, I mean, I can totally relate and like I remember especially my kind of grandparents the way yeah, those over boiled vegetables that you know, we didn't know how to cook them and, and it's, you know, obviously when you have something If that isn't cooked as it, you know, is when it how it's going to be at its best, then you're going to be like, Oh, what's this thing? Just as you were saying that really reminded me of like, what's there's this kind of, there's this kind of paragraph in I don't know if you know, Douglas McMaster, but there's chef from silo, which is credible Zero Waste concept over here. And he has this whole paragraph in the book called, like, the vegans are coming. And it says, he's like, unit is, yeah, that it's the way he writes it. Honestly, it's amazing that if you haven't, it's called the Zero Waste blueprint, the book. And he kind of does this whole thing about like, being kind of vegetable like investigator, and he sort of says, like, you have, he was, like, you know, like, chopping and like changing and like, prodding these vegetables, making them sweat, like understanding how they worked. And like, there's this kind of curiosity that people just like him have where they're not, you know, they don't have it's not a vegan place, but they cook with vegetables and the way that Douglas does, it especially has when it just reminded me cuz you're talking about broccoli, but he has this broccoli dish, where he has in really investigated the broccoli, he, he trims off all of the florets, just the ends and make makes like a broccoli rice or like, you know, like couscous, the dresses that he has the stem, which he kind of, I think steams, and then makes incredible broth, and it's this kind of like deconstructed broccoli, like, it's one of his kind of famous dishes. But, you know, we have that understanding now and like back then, you know, we just didn't, especially in the UK, that's not vegetables, we're, you know, it's not necessarily so much the, you know, the prime part of why our kind of cuisine, whereas in other places where, like barley, for example, I mean, there's much more like, you know, awareness, I guess I'd like fresh foods. And it's just, you know, it's just shaped in a different, different way. But I think, you know, in the in this last kind of 10 years, that's it's changed so much. But yeah, chefs obviously have a part of that.
Martin O'Toole 27:05
They do. But I suppose part of our awareness has come with understanding the the nutrient level, and and, of course, the pro tennis opportunities in vegetables. Because you can still speak to a meat eater who judges you for being vegan or plant based. And of course, the first question they always have for you is, what's yours?
Julia Malcolmson 27:29
How do you get your protein?
Martin O'Toole 27:32
How do you get your protein?
Julia Malcolmson 27:34
When did you become a nutritionist?
Martin O'Toole 27:36
We go. And then of course, then you have to start explaining that, actually, there's a pile of protein in all this stuff. So I suppose this, this exponential rise, gave way to the opportunity then for you to create the plant Academy. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about the plant Academy?
Lauren Lovatt 27:58
Yeah, of course. So. So yeah, I mean, we so plant Academy is a plant based culinary school in London, and now online. So we opened like three years ago. And it was actually inspired by so obviously, when I was kind of had asparagus and I'd taken all these short courses, I kept thinking like, I don't, you know, people would say, Oh, you were chef, like, where did you train? And I'd say, Well, you know, like, it was this kind of awkward question where I'd be like, Well, I have, I've taken a lot of courses. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a chef. And I know lots of people have that. It like that kind of, you know thing about using the word chef and you know how you've trained. But I really, you know, we'd been open for a few years, I'd started doing my own kind of like pop up events, like we were doing different festivals. And I still was like, Oh, I really want to learn more. But where can I go? And the first person I ever trained with was a woman called Deborah Durant, and she had her own food studio in the Forest of Dean. And she had been over to America to train with Matthew Kenney, and living in Venice Beach, taking these amazing courses. And I used to think, like, wow, like, this is what I want to do like he had Matthew Kenney is an incredible plumpie Chef he changed changed the face of kind of like, he made what, especially raw food like gourmet raw food more mainstream and now has like hundreds of restaurants all around the world. But he has a culinary school. I had a culinary school in Venice Beach. And I anyway, when the when I had the restaurant, I never thought it'd be possible to go but I got to the point when so many people were asking me like, where did you train and I also felt like, I need to learn more like I want to deepen my understanding. I want to meet other people that are plant based chefs like I don't think I really knew any other plant based chefs, maybe a few but only people that I had trained with or people I'd invited to asparagus them to do like Papa events. But anyway, I ended up going to America and taking that he has a four month kind of curriculum. And I went over to just to take the first month because I was like, How can I leave this restaurant and all these commitments and the team, and how's this gonna work, but I knew I had to get it. So I went, obviously, after the one month, I was like, I need to do all the months. So like, over, about a year I I kind of went, came back, went again, came back, I was really like, these courses were amazing. I mean, the people I was meeting, it was opening, so many opportunities. So like, so much, I was learning so much. And after, I think going into the level three, which I actually took in Barcelona, I we decided to close asparagus, and we kind of I had this kind of urge to just like, see things travel, learn and just take things up to a different level. So I was really lucky that I was taking the courses and they actually offered me a job to teach. So I opened a culinary school in Barcelona and ended up teaching this kind of like three month course that I just take it into a new set of students, it was incredible. And what I've really been seeing, which was very, very new to me at this point, but the people I was connecting with I mean, that was what was changing my kind of everything, my kind of career, my like outlook on the world, my outlook for food, like it was amazing. And to also be connected to these groups of people when you're in that kind of like learning and like the first class we had, we had people from literally all over the world and everyone with this kind of shared passion, they all wanted to go back to where they'd come from start their own businesses do their own thing. And, you know, when you've got that kind of deep passion in a group, it was, it was amazing. So anyway, so when I was over there, this like idea was born for like, why don't we have this in London? Like, well, I mean, it's amazing to be able to travel. But London is such a mecca for food. Like why, like, I've got to go to LA to do this. That's not possible for many people a long way. And yeah, exactly. And also, for this time, I was okay, like I couldn't, I'm really like, I mean, I immersed myself, like a year just in this kind of training and like, you know, travelling and went to Bali, like literally would, in this time had all of these kind of teaching opportunities, but I was like this, you know, going away for a month. I found it hard like initially to do that as I hoped. But how does this How does this work? But for lots of other people, obviously, it's also not possible. So it's like surely in London, like we need something that is more like integrated into our lives, maybe we can maybe take a week out, we could take, you know, a little bit more of a kind of accessible amount of time to to experience these things. And because I'd also seen lots of chefs going through the programmes. And you know, when you're a chef, whether you're like working on a boat, or you have a restaurant, or you're working for someone like, you know, it's hard to take this time out, and but lots of people were wanting to change and like learn more plant based things. So yeah, so the idea for plant Academy was was kind of born there. And I was very, very lucky at the time that I'd been doing some pop up events in London with a guy called David bez, who's the offer author of salad pride. And he also had a space called salad pride at the time. And David has, like, phoned me up one day and was like John to catch up, like, I just got back from one of the courses, I think, in maybe in LA. And he was like, I want to open a new space. And I really liked he'd seen what I'd been doing. We'd work together in the past. And he was like, I want to do a restaurant, but with a school. And I was like, oh my god, this is exactly what I've been thinking about, like, you know, it really, it really just aligned. And we came up with the idea for something called plant herb. It was a culinary, like a restaurant and culinary academy. And, I mean, there was so many kind of it was a roller coaster to get there to say the least. But we ended up kind of the beginning of 2019, I think, yeah, opening plant hub with the idea to be to. I mean, we started off doing just short courses. But my dream was to do these kinds of long courses where people would come from London, but also from all over the world to train with us transform their relationship with food, like take things to the next level. And, yeah, it took me about six months of us being open to actually understand how to do it. And I actually was I went to teach in Bali to do the first level two course which I'd already been writing for maybe like six months before and that really enabled me to see like, Okay, how are we going to do this in London like, you know, kind of needed? Because when I had taught the courses before they'd been written already, like I was just kind of relaying information and then adding my own spin on it. But this course in Bali, I was like, okay, I can write the course, like, we can then go over there and teach. You know, it was amazing. So I, yeah, ended up coming back to London, we launched the longer courses which we've called plant 123. And very much with this idea of like, you know, plant food fundamentals, advanced plant foods, and then making an impact on the food system, which is all about plant based business. And yeah, the idea kind of came to life and someone that I'd worked with before and amazing chef called Karolina, she had worked with me in Barcelona, she moved to London to help me do plant Academy, like she came over for maybe a day, and I was like, please come and help and like, offered her this opportunity. And she literally just moved and actually made it possible for me to start this concept. And from the first one we did, we've had students from all over the world, like the courses were very, very popular. And until we put everything online, I think we did like five, plant one courses. And then one, level two, one, level three. And yeah, I mean, students from everywhere, it was a really incredible opportunity and experience.
Martin O'Toole 36:11
And it's an anybody can can come to the plant Academy. Is that right? Or do you have to be a commercial chef for
Lauren Lovatt 36:17
No, no. No, literally, I mean, literally anyone. I mean, we've had people that have barely even picked up a knife before two people that have worked on yachts, I mean, such a mixture of people. But somewhere in that kind of coming together, there's such magic for people to I mean, some of the best classes we've had a when you know, we've, there was one chef in particular that he came and he was like, treat me like I know nothing. He's like, this is all new to me. I might have worked on boats for however many years. But this is this is new. I'm like, you know, I'm like this, you know, we're all on the same level here. And then we also had, like, you know, people that honestly had never really cooked before, but they were very excited about plant based food. And for everyone to kind of come together like, right, this is fresh, this is new, let's just kind of go for it. And yeah, it's amazing to see what people can do and what people take back from these kinds of courses. And like I said before, but there's that power in connecting with these other people. You don't feel like Oh, I'm just like wanting to do this thing, but why I'm kind of alone in it. It's like, wow, there's other people that are doing what I want to do in their own way, everywhere. And then you've got that support system.
Martin O'Toole 37:30
Imagine if I just disappeared for how long have these courses Lauren? We'll see shortly. Well,
Lauren Lovatt 37:34
the shortest one we we've changed it now because it's all online but we the shortest one used to be just five days.
Martin O'Toole 37:41
So imagine if I just disappeared for five days and then came back and suddenly started absolutely banging it out of the park on the plant based front.
Julia Malcolmson 37:52
Yes. I want to do the course too.
Martin O'Toole 37:54
Oh yeah. Yeah, there'll be no surprise then but yeah, I have to say having having converted from being I would say I was told I was a really good cook but I it was for me I was a meat cook you know everything was around epic meat dishes, but I was also a Jamie Oliver naked chef sort of convert you know, the way he's cookbooks are written the very simple for the men. I think men knows a sweeping generalisation. Apologies, chaps, for men with a short attention span and very little time. So, but when I stopped eating meat, I just I lost the passion for cooking. I have to tell you, Well, you struggle
Julia Malcolmson 38:39
a little bit to see vegetables and know what to do with them. Yeah. Yeah. And how to create a full meal out of the vegetables.
Martin O'Toole 38:47
Yeah, I really do. And and it's funny because again, in Bali, there's a dish called Nasi Campur, which I'm sure you're very familiar with. And for those of you who are not it's what is it? It's a it's a mixture of mainly I mean the vegetable offerings are phenomenal out there you've got Chuck Chai lots of 10 paise and
Julia Malcolmson 39:10
it's like a combination of about seven to 12 dishes and you get to pick which ones you want but it's all based around having rice
Martin O'Toole 39:18
yeah rice in the centre long been there eggplant dishes, you name it in barley admittedly the the plant based for all rather than non meat Fallback is often soy based so it is tempting and tofu, which too much of which is not great in a diet especially with with so much of it being GMO in this part of the world. It's not organic, unfortunately. That said, I actually I would love to learn just how to how to do that. You know how to add to this right? How can I make nasty chump poor perhaps we can talk about that off off air at some point. Anyway, I am rambling Yeah, so we do have a question or two for you from one of our listeners. Great. So let's, let's play Be my guest Be my guest. Let's talk my friend. Let's talk my face. This isn't the end. You were free. I just don't know. I usually fade this out quick. I just love listening to Dwayne's voice. You just don't know. Thanks to a.
Noele 40:42
Hi there. It's Noel from the UK. I've got three questions for Lauren, three, that feed your mind candy. And my questions are? Is it possible to heal the body of disease through diet alone? What top three foods are great for mental health. And lastly, my son was recently diagnosed with having an allergy to grain. So we now follow a strict grain free diet that's not so different to the Paleo diet. What are your thoughts on grain as a common allergen? And should we all be limiting greed in our diet?
Martin O'Toole 41:16
Wow. Thanks, Noele. That's a lot of questions. Let's break that down. So question one was, Is it possible to heal the body of disease through diet alone?
Lauren Lovatt 41:26
Wow. Yeah, they are great questions.
Martin O'Toole 41:29
Well done. Noele,
Lauren Lovatt 41:30
yeah, well done. No. Well, we love that. Um, so. Yeah, I mean, gosh, there's, there's, that's a it's like a very complex question. I mean, I am very, very into kind of like food, as, you know, medicine, that kind of like common thing that we hear about, but there's, you know, everything is every disease is going to be so different, like all of whatever we're talking about will have its own complexities. Something that I'm really really interested interested in is kind of like Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, like looking at these kind of ancient tools wisdoms that, I kind of vary, you know, they're incredible. I think it is very, very possible to use food, or sometimes even like, the lack of food for, for healing, every disease will have its own sort of, like, things that it needs. And it will very much depend on like, exactly, you know, what's going on, when we're talking about mental health, which kind of leads on to the next question. But there's so much that we can put into place with food. And I think, where we kind of go wrong in the West, which is something that so many incredible people are talking about that, you know, we're not thinking about, like our, our lifestyle is something that can be this kind of Preventative Medicine, it's just kind of like, oh, you know, when something happens, what can we do, and at that point, if you're leaning on food, at the end, you of course, that can help but it's also all of those things in the lead up that you kind of like, you know, putting things in place that are like, you know, changing your whole lifestyle and not thinking, Oh, I'm going to, you know, do go plant based for a little bit, and then I'll kind of see what happens, like, obviously, if you do a more extreme fast and a short time is going to be good, and then also like reintroducing things, but I think that there's a whole shift that needs to happen before we say like food can cure disease, it's like, there's different ways of curing disease through food. And it has to, I think, the key thing to say is like, you I think you couldn't cure disease without thinking about food. So I guess that would be the you know, the key thing, so I think, although food could be the art, maybe the only answer in some cases, there might be a combination of things. But I don't think you can forget about food, you can't like cure something without thinking about what you're putting in your body. And also, like, you know, the food around you as well, like what you're surrounding yourself with?
Julia Malcolmson 44:00
Yeah, I think we also really think about why why we eat food, you know, for so many of us food is become an indulgence, which is what we can do such wonderful things with food. Of course, why not indulge on it? But I think often we forget that actually the food is what is made, it makes our body that food is what we are. So we need to to kind of have a balanced view of everything that goes into our body.
Martin O'Toole 44:28
Yeah, I agree. I think we need to rethink our relationship with food entirely. And I would say, No, well, yeah, absolutely. Just just to reinforce what Lauren said, what we eat can absolutely cause disease. And this is why this is why we're constantly having these conversations about organic versus GMO free. Yeah, totally. And to too much sugar, caffeine, the wrong kinds of fats. In fact, there are Depending on your depending on your blood type, there are certain food types you shouldn't eat. And a lot of us don't even know this. So actually, we can give ourselves cancer, we can give ourselves liver problems, we can give ourselves lung problems, kidney problems, just through the things we eat. But I suppose certainly, personally speaking, I was consuming all manner of things for far too long, always under the distinct misunderstanding that, that I would either live fast die young, or this behaviour was was not gonna have a long term effect on my health. And of course, as I've as I've already mentioned, it actually has so I'm, I'm super keen now to understand more about what I'm putting in my body. And in this detoxes is part of that process and as a result of I'm quitting certain things like caffeine, and wheat, and certain oils forever, which is kind of a big deal because I was I was a big coffee drinker. It was my only advice after after I gave everything else up. Okay, question two was what top three foods are great for mental health?
Lauren Lovatt 46:19
Another great question. So yeah, I mean, I've mental health is kind of definitely the the area that I've learned the most about so my whole kind of like foods everything food career was really built on this kind of late understanding of food for our minds and how you know, food can really affect how we feel and and support us in so many ways. So I've literally just finished writing a book called Mind food which talks about the kind of key ingredients for mental health and not just you know, food ingredients, but like lifestyle ingredients as I like to kind of think of them but so my favourites and and again, like with anything, they will be personal to you like different foods will make us feel differently. But the foods that I really lean on for my mental health are medicinal mushrooms is the kind of key first one they're amazing. And I mean, each one so unique and so transformative. My kind of spirit mushroom is Lion's Mane everyone will have their own spirit mushroom, right.
Martin O'Toole 47:28
But
Lauren Lovatt 47:31
a great spirit mushroom, I mean, yeah, transformative spirit mushroom,
Martin O'Toole 47:36
interrupted you, Lion's Mane
Lauren Lovatt 47:40
but yeah, so So lion's mane is amazing for focus. It's amazing for sort of like helping it well for me, I feel really balanced really kind of like, tuned in when I'm having lion's mane. There's also mushrooms like Chaga reishi, kind of even kind of Turkey and things that you can have extracts of and get a lot of different benefits. So I would say no matter what kind of mental health even not issue but like if you're, you know needing something to kind of lift you support you calm you down, like all of those mushrooms are a great place to start if you're looking for kind of a potent kind of ingredient to introduce So, yeah, medicinal mushrooms. I would also say hemp in many different forms. I love as a as a kind of plant based person. Hemp is an amazing source of amigas and I use hemp so much in my kind of day to day whether it's making hemp milk, soy yoghurts or just sprinkling hemp seeds on salad, they're an incredible thing to introduce and very, very nourishing but then also CBD which is a different kind of process of, of hemp, but if you have any sort of kind of anxiety related issues or pain or anything, I'd say CBD can be really transformative to our minds. And the third one, you know what I'm gonna go with is cacao. I mean, these are all kind of like quite potent plants. I would say if you've never had them before, just like you know, introduce one introduce one by one and literally tune in, see how they make you feel but cacao is one something that is so deeply comforting. But also I think when you maybe are feeling depending on the kind of issue but for me especially like that heart opening like when I've been in a not so great place, cacao is something that is just added it just it really goes into a deeper place where you can just feel so much more kind of, well, maybe in more in itself but it just it gives you so much in terms of your mental health and obviously there's all the science around that which is kind of like how you know the properties of cacao, the different minerals, the kind of like it All those things, but on a very kind of like base level cacao can be something that Yeah, it's really incredible for our minds to.
Julia Malcolmson 50:07
Yeah, I'm pleased to hear you say that I do have a cup of sacred cacao every day. And I love that, especially when I'm I have in that way of kind of a ritual, you know, if I'm sitting down to do some kind of work with myself, or actually, even at the moment, when I'm working on my own projects, I try and make my space quite secret to get into it. And I'll always start with a cup of cacao.
Martin O'Toole 50:31
She's mad about Yeah, but
Lauren Lovatt 50:33
it is it is when I totally relate, and it could so gets you into that space. And it's, and when you also, like, introduce it with that kind of ritualistic, like, you know, is sacred is like, you know, and especially if you're kind of sourcing these kind of like incredible, like, more medicinal kind of cacao to use their new, there's, yeah, there's so much in it. And I think that we can often kind of forget that, you know, we're so used to having just like chocolate or like, whatever. And it's like, this isn't the same as like eating a piece of chocolate. I mean, of course you can do that. But even if you are doing that, it's like how can you bring in this sort of moment of being like really tuning into how it makes you feel, I think a lot of mental health and food is kind of slowing it down and actually being like, how does this make me feel? Why am I consuming this in this way? And that's a huge, huge part of I think mental health and food is eating it differently, but also connecting with those different feelings.
Martin O'Toole 51:32
Yeah, I think there's with ceremonial cacao. I think you're quite right. You're both right. There's there's there is a process of being present. And I suppose you are part of the ceremonies is celebrating the mindful approach that you're you're giving to your consumption of of cacao. Because ultimately, as you've expressed, it is a process of healing in a way, or lightening, lightening and lightening. It's a heart opener, isn't it? It's cacao. So I suppose that makes sense. Well, that's a good list. And it made me think of zest, you know, the restaurant in Uber? Well, they
Julia Malcolmson 52:14
do. Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 52:16
they do mean sacred cocao. And you can actually you can you can order it based on the percentage of what cacao is. And I think there's like a 50% 75% and a 95% 99%.
Julia Malcolmson 52:28
They do pure pure cacao. But it's because you know, for some people, that's too much. Yeah, blew my head off. But they do do a large, which I tend to order and it is a little bit big.
Martin O'Toole 52:37
Yeah, it's a big old mug as well. Okay, then the third question that nowhere last was, what are your thoughts on grain as an allergen? Should we all be limiting grain in our diet?
Lauren Lovatt 52:51
Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I think that there's grain especially, there's so many different thoughts on this, like, there's the whole kind of train of thought that is really about, like, you know, grain isn't great for us. And I think different people, obviously, that it will suit them to have a very light, low grain diet. But for it, it again, comes in many different ways. But for some people, I mean, I'm definitely one of them that I cut out grain for a really long time, I'm quite like a airy, floaty person. And without that kind of grains to ground, you that can also be quite difficult. So I think it's going to be different things for different people, it's always about the sourcing of what you're having, like, you know, he's saying about organic food, like, where's the grain coming from? How much are you consuming? Like, there's so many key questions to ask. And I haven't actually heard so much of like, grain allergies. So it is interesting that that, you know, that is a thing. And it is difficult, I guess when you when you cut it out, because there are whether it's kind of a flower here or different grains, it's it can be something that's hidden in a lot of our foods. But I would say that it really depends on the people, some people without grains are just gonna, like fly away and not function very well. Other people actually not having them if they're irritating, that could be like gut issues or otherwise. But yeah, I think it's about really kind of, I think it's beneficial to do and if you've if that's an engineer, so many things that you can obviously like they're although they're a key food group, there's so many things you can have that aren't going to be grains like you know, leaning more on pulses or, you know, different kinds of foods that are gonna give you that kind of sustenance. But I think that not forever, like that's one way of eating is never going to suit everyone. So I'd say that, you know, it's a great you can do so much without grains, but also, so many people really do need grains, but it's all about where they come from.
Martin O'Toole 54:43
Yeah, I suppose it's more difficult if you're feeding a child we don't know how old no else. You've feeding a child. If you see the child and you're removing grain. What are you removing it from me, mama, I can't speak. You're removing bread,
Julia Malcolmson 54:57
rice pizza bread pasta. stuff. Yeah. Go this kind of I guess what like search quinoa buck wheat
Martin O'Toole 55:05
Yeah, that. Yeah, cuz actually grain is it's a seed. Is that right?
Lauren Lovatt 55:11
Yeah, it's the season I'm there's lots of those kinds of amazing. Like, I mean quinoa and buckwheat are prime examples, they're both seeds, they're not actually grains, but they can really, you know, be used in a really similar way. So I think it would be looking at like, you know, what are the other options? What what grains that aren't technically grains that, you know, give you that kind of feeling. And those two are such kind of so high in nutrition. And like you say, yeah, it's it's difficult with children, especially if you've got kind of your staples, but then you could also be doing kind of, you know, making pancakes out of chickpea flour or, you know, using beans in different ways you can now get, there's an incredible company in the UK called Padma Dodds, and they do kind of like, all sorts of different British grown like, beans and posters, and they have flowers made out of everything from kind of yellow peas to all sorts of stuff. So I think when you know, now, there are so many options. So I mean, if you know, you're in the UK, then there's a lot out there. But definitely moving away from the kind of like, processed or non organic grains is going to be a good a good thing anyway.
Martin O'Toole 56:19
Well, I think as you alluded it's, it's a huge education process, isn't it? And I think we were being invited in so many ways, allergens aside to, to reframe the way we look at food, and what we consume. And, like your Olympia, I'm in the same situation with with this new diet, I'm gonna have to be, I'm gonna have to pivot a little bit and reconsider what I how I how I cook. The setting aside the fact that I've rarely cook. So for example, okay, well, if you can actually eat some of the things that you used to eat, well, then you're gonna have to cook more at home. So I think it's just, it's, it's a natural progression. But I think it also, this alludes to something you said earlier that it also strengthens our relationship with food. Because I think certainly, in Bali, anyway, I can't speak for my do when I lived in London, it was the same, I ate out a lot or got a lot of takeaways. And of course, with the all the online delivery services you have now you can get takeaways from incredibly good restaurants, it's not MSG, the usual sort of dirty hangover meal that people used to acquire in the UK. So actually, when you're thinking about these things, thinking about the ingredients as much as the meal, you really are being significantly more mindful, aren't you in preparing the food?
Lauren Lovatt 57:46
Totally. And I think that, you know, there's, it's, it is, you know, easy to get caught up in that kind of, you know, ordering takeaways and doing different things, but when we do connect to the ingredients we're using is so inspiring. I mean, when I first went plant based, I remember like financial disclosure, I don't remember having avocados as a kid or any of those kinds of things. I remember finding these things and being like, wow, like, you know, what is this it does unlock a whole new toolbox of ingredients and things that you can get excited by, but like you're saying, it's just knowing how to use them, which is where like, you know, cookery courses, or like, you know, particular chefs or books, you can, you know, just try and find a few different things that you feel are accessible to you. And then yeah, I mean, endless possibilities.
Julia Malcolmson 58:33
So how might someone who's always treated vegetables as an afterthought, begin to get more creative with their vegetables? And I think this question be quite helpful for Martin.
Lauren Lovatt 58:47
This is Martin's question. Okay. So I think it's, it's so easy, like you said, to have to have that like, oh, you know, they're, they're the side dish, but just like I was saying about with Douglas and how he's thinking about them. It's like, if we've got these kinds of any ingredient, like, how can we actually build a dish around that so if you have like, a piece of squash, it's not kind of like, Oh, I'm gonna like roasted squash and have it on the side of something is like, Okay, I'm gonna actually marinate the squash. I'm gonna cook it slowly, like you know, treating it in a way that it's not just kind of like steamed and put on a plate there's so many things you can do so it's really investigating the flavour of whatever it is and I think if you are like being like, right, I really want to get more creative with plants like how can I make vegetables the star but maybe finding your favourite vegetables, whether that's like broccoli or squash or carrots or anything, but really treat like kind of, you know, you could marinate them barbecue them like look at people like Derek Sarno, who like work with mushrooms he like makes these mushrooms just incredible and it's because you're, you're not just cooking them quickly and putting them on plate which nothing is really going to shine. like that, I mean, if you're really wanting to kind of change your perception, you can start to get much more creative with these plants. And I think as well like, knowing that, you know, give yourself room for kind of creativity, and mistakes, but also look at, like, there's so many people out there now that are doing great things, just find someone that you relate to be like, I'm just going to try, try this one thing and making sure that your plates are kind of balanced, that, you know, you're not just having a huge plate of vegetables and being like, I don't feel satisfied. It's like, okay, my squash is gonna be the star of the show, like, I'm going to marinate it and cook it slowly. It's nice to have some texture. So maybe I'm going to make, you know, like, make some savoury granola that I'm going to put on top and cook some grains because that's gonna give me the sustenance. So just like you would like, if you look at a, you know, a classic meal, you're probably going to have like, the main event, some sort of sauce, something crunchy and some grains or sustenance of something, keep using that word, but you know, something that's going to fill out so it's thinking of it in the way that you're sort of like building something crunchy is such a key element of what you're doing. Like if you've any dish like it's literally scientifically proven that if you eat something that's got something crunchy, you're more pleasure is released in your brain. So you literally like yeah, so they've done experiments with people eating crisps and headphones, and if they make the crunch louder, they enjoy a more cosy, but it's a such a thing to think about. Because if you do like, you know, vegetables can tend to be quite soft. And if you have something just be like, Oh, I'm just going to whether it's the vegetable peels, you could just like put them in the oven with some olive oil and salt and you have something crunchy to put on top of your dish or like you know, just anything, but it's Yeah, always thinking about like the textures, flavours sauces.
Julia Malcolmson 1:01:51
I think Martin just had a bit of an aha moment when he said that he's like, Ah, I can put the peel in the oven.
Lauren Lovatt 1:01:57
Ah, yeah.
Martin O'Toole 1:01:58
And textures. Well I liked the idea of of textures. We do a lot
Julia Malcolmson 1:02:02
of seeds, don't we? Yeah, pumpkin seeds and walnuts to kind of crunch up the vegetables
Martin O'Toole 1:02:07
we throw them on top, whatever the vegetable dishes.
Lauren Lovatt 1:02:11
Yeah, that's so good. And I think it's you know, getting creative with that those crunchy things as well because you could, you know, make I love to make little savoury granolas and they can really kind of like amp up that kind of flavours in your in whatever you're making. So like, you know, processing some oats and nuts, with some kind of like any sort of herbs, baking in the oven with olive oil and salt and anything like that. It's just gonna be so delicious.
Martin O'Toole 1:02:34
Man, you definitely had me with savoury canola. Granola, what a great idea. Lauren, it's just occurred to me that if you packed a bag now and went straight to the airport, you could probably be here by lunchtime. Let's do it live. This is making me so hungry. It's making my mouth water. So hey, as you know, how to die happy is threaded together by the top 10 Common deathbed regrets. As sad as those regrets are. And one of those regrets is that I wish I'd taken better care of my body. And we often find ourselves on this podcast talking to people about, I suppose consumption, but not necessarily what we put in our mouth. Because of course, consumption can mean many things, it's what we listen to, is what we watch. It's the environment in which we spend most of our time. It's the social circles that we that we hang with, I suppose. So the energy that we're also kind of imbibing if you like but of course, one of the things that probably never occurred to me for the longest of times was how what we eat can affect our mental health. And then of course, as you alluded earlier on, she brought out or about to bring out a new book, which is called Mind food. Is that right?
Lauren Lovatt 1:04:16
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Mind food has Yes, coat while coming out in a couple of months. And it's been well, something of the book I've always wanted to write like, it's my first book. And so my whole yeah, as I sort of touched on earlier, my whole food journey kind of started so I always love food. And I never saw it as kind of a career or an option for anything. And when so, so I'd always kind of like you know been cooking with my granddad like you know, surrounded by amazing food. It was I loved cooking like I really like I would always be cooking for kind of like making three costumes for my family like having people over I just loved it. But obviously, never saw it as an option. I went to university to study art. I did like an Art Foundation. And during that time I, you know, fell in love. My first boyfriend was an incredible kind of photographer. And he, at the time we were together, I got diagnosed with bipolar, and we were living this crazy rock and roll lifestyle. I mean, as we do when we go to uni, you know, we were out like seven days a week, like I'm in and going very, like very hardcore. And relate. Yeah, exactly. And it was, you know, a moment when we had this kind of this word bipolar, we didn't, I never heard, I think I'd heard someone on a TV show once had it, which actually helped us to get the diagnosis, because we kind of saw these parallels, but it was, yeah, something that I didn't understand. I remember being presented with this massive lift list of symptoms, all these different things for my boyfriend at the time. And we were like, Whoa, like, you know, like, it's all, you know, taking medication, like, doing these things, but food was never spoken about. And I never even thought about it. I mean, we were going out, we were just eating whatever, like, you know, I can't even remember what we were, you know, like really eating at that time. I remember going to away together and I looked back and I know, did we even eat? Like, did we go out and have no like, you know, it wasn't considered. Anyway, so. So food and mental health was just like these two distant things at that time. And as like, as time went on, I, I was still so we ended up going to different unis after this, like initial Art Foundation. And I was, you know, we were working out like what was going on, but he was really, really suffering with this, like this roller coaster of moods, emotions, like the physical and mental elements of bipolar and mental health in general. It was, it was extremely intense. And anyway, long, very long story short, but he so one day, I woke up to a phone call from his twin brother, and he ended up taking his own life. So from there, my world just collapsed. And food. Well, I went for about a year of, you know, just being in limbo, like I, you know, I didn't know how to deal with this people around me, like suicide was something no one. I mean, at that time, I didn't know anyone that had, you know, experienced this sort of loss. So I went through a year of just absolute limbo. And one day, just I was I was I can't be this upset anymore. Like, what am I going to do and my kind of my whole focus shifted to foods like I ended up like going from depression to eating disorders. And again, never thinking about my lifestyle, but it was just kind of like putting the focus on food, like it was an unconscious decision. But when I look back, I remember that kind of thought process changing and be like, can't be upset anymore, and it just kind of spiralled. So I went many years through quite a very intense illness and like many different problems, and was quite lucky that at the end of this, like, the kind of wellness food scene was just about picking up and I'd started to read bits about kind of, you know, not food on our mental health necessarily, but like, you know, this food can do this. And, you know, like, drawing all these parallels to be like, what this you know, like, what, literally, whatever it might be, like having a certain food that's going to sort of like, make you give you energy, and another thing that's going to maybe make you feel calm, and I was like whoa, like, I've never thought about food in this way. So this Yeah, I mean, it was kind of like a five year or so process, but just as I, I had really good support around me and I was suddenly wanting, I hadn't, I didn't want to get better for a really long time. But suddenly, I I wanted to get better I kind of was I moved back home, I kind of like was doing my degree from home. In the end, we'd move to the well, we're just about moving to the Cotswolds from Somerset before and, you know, all these changes were happening. And it was suddenly like, right, I need to do something I need to change. And I sort of I was finishing my degree, and it was in fashion. And I was like I need to make this meaningful. I need to kind of give myself some sort of blueprint to want to get better. I ended up actually writing the blueprint for this book. This is like how many years ago that is like, eight, nine years ago or something and I wrote a book called The recipe for wellbeing. And it was a kind of lifestyle handbook for what literally what I was learning at the time. I was like I need to folk channel this into something. And I started to research food and other lifestyle elements So like, you know, who we're surrounding ourselves with what we're doing everyday, like, what are our routines? Like? How are we actually like, tuning into how we're building our lives, and ended up creating this kind of like, yeah, it was a trend book all about creating a trend for mental health and how to make that way of living more desirable, more accessible. And it's basically been my blueprint ever since, I mean, from that point, I kind of, I ended up working in food, like understanding these kinds of different things. And not just the ingredients we're having, how we're cooking, going plant based, you know, all of those things, but actually, you know, who, who we are surrounding ourselves with? Like, how, how do I What time do I want to get up? Like, why? Why am I doing these things and kind of trying, not conforming to what we're taught, told we should do, but actually how to reshape a whole lifestyle that feels like actually nourishes because everyone's going to be different, but nourishes you on a really deep level. And so yeah, the book mind food was born about three years ago by ended up in signing the deal with the publisher, like last year. And it's just collecting all of my like, recipes and learnings over the last 10 or so years. And it's a kind of lifestyle handbook for positive mental health. And when I talked about in there, like the ingredients that I love, like you've been, we've like we've been talking about today, and, but also kind of lifestyle practices. So I talked about like Kundalini Yoga, acupuncture, which was literally the thing that saved my life, I mean, and that was one of the things that gave me that nudge to suddenly like something shifted, and I wanted to do differently. And, and all of those kinds of things. So the book really puts everything together as a kind of, really just to spark ideas for people about what's possible. I think, when I was, when I look back to Russia, who was my boyfriend, that passed away, we had no idea and the things we were eating, I mean, it was crazy, like, you look back, and oh, my gosh, if we'd have had a few of the even just a few of these little tools in a kind of like toolbox, and so much could have been supported. And not that necessarily would have changed everything. But just to have those things as like common knowledge, I think would have been transformative. And for me, like, and, you know, we've all been on our own journeys, you search for this information, and you think like, well, you know, where do we start, but like things like Kundalini Yoga, I mean, again, that's been an amazing thing that's incredible for addiction, incredible for mental health. And when you it's, it's so difficult to know where to start. So I really hope with MindFood that it's, it's that kind of starting point for some people, and even if it's just like, you know, I can introduce this ingredient I could try try this different thing. I mean, I even talk about like astrology and like, kind of understanding a little bit more about yourself and how you can how that can really help like, so. So yeah, so that's where we're kind of so minefields. Yeah. Is this kind of mental health handbook? And yeah, it comes out in a few months.
Martin O'Toole 1:13:09
And I presume it's full of recipes as well. Is it interspersed with as well? Yeah. And so it's interspersed with some of these observations you've discussed? And you said that you analyse what you guys were were eating? And did you then discover then that actually a lot of the foods you were eating were depressants of some? Yeah,
Lauren Lovatt 1:13:31
totally. I mean, so many things. I mean, we're just eating just purely processed food. I mean, although I loved cooking, like when I was at uni, and we were living this kind of crazy life, like, you know, we were having so many, like, you know, it was all like, kind of pizzas and like, things like, chips, and I don't know, I can't remember what it was. It feels so alien to what I do love. Student food. Yeah, exactly. Student food. But, you know, there's an although like, you know, it's going through that process, but it's, there's so much that you can do on such a micro level, like, just, you know, adding some sort of plants to each meal, or, like, you know, understanding that, you know, you need to even for things like that, like, you know, eating regularly like actually having trying to introduce ingredients that are more nourishing or mood boosting or calming like and that could be in the form of literally like CBD or a certain adaption and just introducing that in some sort of way. And I mean, everything goes hand in hand. I mean, obviously, the more you improve your diet, the better you're gonna feel. But there's always those kinds of tiny things. So the book is actually like written in seasons there's four seasons with like many different ideas and then loads of desserts, lots of drinks and even like tiny little like, savoury granolas and dressings that just by adding one or two of those things and learning a little bit more about what can help by think yeah, I really hope that it's inspiring for people to have that in one place.
Julia Malcolmson 1:15:06
Yeah, it's, and it's really inspiring as well hearing how that that books come about, like, you know, turning something around, finding that lesson within it and turning it into this incredible handbook to now help people going forward. And you just think even like people at university, if they knew a little bit more about taking Lion's Mane, you know, you're there to study to learn. So totally, instead of eating our pizzas, you know, every night because it's cheap, you actually start to feed your brain. And to have those little tools and just starting small, all it needs, all you need to do is change one thing, and then you can grow from there.
Martin O'Toole 1:15:45
But again, as we discussed earlier, it comes back to reframing, doesn't it a change in mindset, pardon the pun, that we have to, we have to consider what it is we're consuming. And as you said, Jules, mean bravo to you, Lauren, for for making such a transformative move off the back of what was undoubtedly an incredibly harrowing event. Interestingly, we had a guest on a few weeks ago, lady called Becky Jax, who discovered her brother who had committed suicide and he had serious mental health issues. And, and she was also faced with that obvious, I suppose, choice right to either go completely under as a result of this thing, or to or to begin a healing journey. And Becky actually did a she did a lot of work here. And so she did hypnotherapy and breathwork. And I think it's some dietary stuff as well. And she was so transformed and healed as a result of the process that she she had completely changed her life direction and became a grief and loss mentor, specialising in suicide. Well, it sounds like an absolutely fascinating book. And I think it's certainly something that well, any of us would find some would find helpful in some way, shape or form. Certainly, if it if it provides little tidbits as well for for the likes of me who's admittedly not a proactive chef these days.
Lauren Lovatt 1:17:31
Totally. Yeah. Well, hopefully, you'll get some Yeah, little tips and tricks from there to get started.
Julia Malcolmson 1:17:36
It might inspire you to get in the kitchen
Martin O'Toole 1:17:38
Yeah, well, I am, I'm all for, you know, what, I've had mental health issues or had mental health issues for a long time. And I did, I've done all manner of things on the healing journey. But my first foray into it was with a therapist. And I would sit down with this therapist, and, you know, I don't know if you've had therapy, but anyone listening to the show will know what I mean. You know, when the therapist just sits there, deadpan. And of course, you're a people pleaser when you go into therapy doesn't matter who you are. Because therapist says nothing. So they're sort of keen to make them laugh or something, you know, she'll tell them a little. Yeah, you'll ask them what how their weekend was newer tell you because therapists aren't supposed to do that. So then you'll break a joke, and you'll be the only one laughing and therapists will sort of sit there and go, Okay, shall we begin? Wow. Okay, yeah, let's begin. But my, the point I'm rambling toward is I had therapists like that, who gave me nothing. And then I started seeing another therapist chap called Michael, who I've written about even because this chap really did change things for me in the first place. And that's because I said to him, this is only going to work if you explain the science to me. And so he did. So I would rock up every week, have these therapy sessions? And I would, I don't know, tell him about what crazy stuff I had done or thought or said, as you do in therapy, but he would then explain the science and for me being pragmatic, it suddenly clicked, the whole thing clicked and I could then look at my behaviour and or my communication in a completely different and pragmatic way with this with the appliance of science. And it sounds like your book is kind of doing the same thing.
Lauren Lovatt 1:19:33
Yeah, I mean, firstly, I think it's so interesting with therapists I've also had been on I've had so many different therapists and once you find that person that you know, whether it's explaining the science or like, I had someone that could just, she could really relate to the kind of she's a grief counsellor, but then she had celiac disease and could really relate to the kind of like food side of things not being able to have stuff and like, you know, it was it was amazing. Like it's all about finding that right person. And I think with a book, I, you know, do take lots of things that I've learned from all sorts of different perspectives, but they're very much in a kind of, bite sized way. And what I'm sort of inviting people to do is like to try these things, but just really to try and just feel feel into them, rather than be like, This is what's going on, you know, when you have like, this will work, because, you know, because it's, it's shown to do this, but actually, like, we know, everyone is going to feel differently doing different things. And it might be, you know, the quantity of things or whatever. But, so it's really about these kind of, you know, like, bite size ideas, pieces of information that have been proven time and time again, to help but about kind of going on your own kind of exploration through them, and then working out like which ones really really resonate.
Martin O'Toole 1:20:54
Well, it sounds like a truly epic book, and I look forward to getting stuck into it.
Julia Malcolmson 1:21:00
Can I ask you a question about the book. This might be tricky to answer because it's kind of your baby. But do you have a favourite recipe off the top of your head
Lauren Lovatt 1:21:10
or favourite recipe? What is my job, the one thing that I would kind of go back to time and time again, because I just really enjoy eating it. But there's one called change the mood chocolate pots. And they're literally just like a chocolate ganache, you can use any sort of like plant based chocolate, but laced with kind of your, whatever plant you're wanting to kind of like, you know, use at that particular time. So obviously, I might add Lion's Mane to them. Other people might add kind of like Reishi or CBD or anything, but they're very simple, but they're the kind of thing that you can just make is so quick to make. And they're just in your fridge. I mean, I definitely had a sweet tooth. And to know, I've got something like that I just, you know, something you look forward to and you know, as well, but it's going to be supporting you in so many different ways. So, so yeah, I have, there's so many desserts in the book. I really love desserts. There's a CBD caramel slice that is a real kind of favourite between people that have come to events that I've done around mental health and food. So yeah, so those are some of my standout ones.
Julia Malcolmson 1:22:17
I did see that one that looked so delicious.
Martin O'Toole 1:22:25
Dessert life I don't think I've ever had such a, an enjoyable slash highly frustrating podcast interview. I haven't eaten anything for nine hours. So, you know, it's kind of one of those things. I love. I love a plant based desert. I noticed having done a bit of research into you really do love the plant base as a study and they look amazing. The desert, you're making it. From your perspective, how important is the presentation? And that might be a dumb question to ask a chef.
Lauren Lovatt 1:23:01
No, not at all. I mean, yeah, I mean, I yeah, I'm very passionate about dessert. It's also very into presentation. I mean, I think the reason that I'm really excited by Plum is that's an presentation is that I think it's such a gateway for people to like, you know, like the Bonacci pie is like if someone had that. They'd be like, what, like, why haven't I always had this as my been occupied? You know, it's like, it's such a kind of portal for people to be like, you know, oh, what's veganism? Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna have this, you try this dessert. And then next minute, they're like, oh, that's what it is. Like, I'm you know, so I feel like that is really exciting. And then presentation also comes on at that same level as like, I think, you know, 2030 years ago, you're looking at plant based food and being like, oh, you know, it's like a bowl of lentils. It's not very exciting. It's not very colourful. Now we're at this point, when it's bright, it's colourful, it's interesting, but you can do so much to take things to another level through how they look. And if you're creating these dishes that look like you just want to jump into them, it's going to like help people to get excited about them. Firstly, obviously you like the way that you'd like seafood is a huge part of how much you actually enjoy it to buy also think like to you know, to take plant based food, whether it's eating for your minds, or whether it's just eating like, you know, vegan food or anything. If we're making it look beautiful, then it just it's so much more enticing and exciting. I think I mean, I'm I'm a really visual person and like when I see things presented like in a not so great way I'm kind of I don't I don't enjoy it as much like I mean, I must admit I play every everything I love. I love that I like it to look really beautiful, but I think for everyone it's it just takes things to a different level of how much we can sort of like throw ourselves into this kind of like way of living as well.
Julia Malcolmson 1:24:59
Yeah, I'd say like when food looks good when people have taken time to present it. It's like another layer of love that's gone into that food.
Lauren Lovatt 1:25:08
Good point. Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 1:25:11
Yeah. I often think certainly, many of the plant based desserts that we see here I think they look more enticing than, than regular desserts anyway. What goes into that bannoffi pie.
Lauren Lovatt 1:25:26
The recipe is in the, in the alchemy cookbook.
Julia Malcolmson 1:25:30
We had it we gave it do with it. He gave it to when we were living in Turkey. We found this incredible plant based restaurant you did it to the chef
Martin O'Toole 1:25:38
Tekine is a what a beautiful soul. Yeah, he was he was an incredible plant based chef in this tiny little vegan restaurant in this little town called kas in southern Turkey. And he already has some incredible books. So yeah, we gifted him the alchemy cookbook. And now here I am wishing I hadn't done that too keen to bring my book to Bali.
Lauren Lovatt 1:26:00
Yeah, give him I asked him to send you there. Or you could just you know, pick up just go to alchemy.
Martin O'Toole 1:26:07
But I know seriousness and this is a question I suppose for for the the less or non plant based dessert lovers, you will probably be saying, Wow, those things a decent dessert. He doesn't have dairy in it. For example. Let's just break that down that benefi pie. I think the the base is a coconut, isn't it a coconut?
Lauren Lovatt 1:26:26
Yes, I think it's coconut and oat or coconut and cashew so yeah, to make a word of that. I mean, you'll use any combination of kind of like nuts and seeds and maybe oats and turn them into flour, then you can blend them with sometimes dates. Or you can also use kind of a kind of pinch of any sort of sweetener, whether that's like maple syrup, or coconut sugar. And then something to bind it all together that can be like a particular liquid, or some coconut oil, or anything but basically you add everything together, put it in a like in a blender. And once you process it or turn into a dough, make sure that dough kind of like rolls into a little ball. I mean you can get so creative with cake bases. But as a kind of rule of thumb if you used any nuts and seeds, oats, a couple of dates, some water and a little bit of coconut oil or cacao butter, which just helps it to hold together. Yeah, that's gonna be your cake base. And then as the fillings you could go for whether the banoffee pie will be is a caramel fillings will add to be kind of a date, or coconut sugar or maple syrup base. But to make a caramel, which is blending dates, and the most delicious one is dates, water and teeny and you just blend everything in you'll have a delicious sort of caramely experience. Or you could do creams, you know like soaking cashews, blending the cashews with a little bit of maple syrup. That's going to be very, very simple cream, always adding a pinch of salt to all of these layers because that just makes it more delicious. Or, you know, using kind of any sort of like yoghurts or nut milks, you can emulsify a nut milk with melted chocolate, which will give you a really light, chocolatey topping. So many things get carried away there.
Martin O'Toole 1:28:19
No, no. And it was absolutely perfect. It's just my Unfortunately, I've an incredibly good imagination. So I was I was making that. And looking at it while you were describing it.
Julia Malcolmson 1:28:30
It's really obvious. I know, the audience can't see you. But you light up so much when you were describing the creation of that cake.
Lauren Lovatt 1:28:39
Yeah, something I definitely get excited about.
Martin O'Toole 1:28:43
So did I. Well, I suspect we could talk about plant based food for several more hours, especially since I'm fasting right now. But I think we've taken up loads of your time. So before we say farewell, is there any question you might have for us, Lauren, instead of to flip the script, so to speak?
Lauren Lovatt 1:29:05
Oh. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's been amazing to come on note. Like I said, I've really enjoyed listening to the podcast as since you've invited me on here. I've really loved catching up with the other episodes. I guess. You've you've done a good few episodes. Now. I mean, it seems it's really lovely to see that it's like finding its flow. But what's your what's your like, key takeaway, or like, you're the best thing you've kind of because obviously, it's like, you know how to die happy. It's like, what what is the thing that you've been like, oh, like I would I would actually take this on board and change from some like, what information has transformed the way you're thinking about that?
Martin O'Toole 1:29:46
That's a really great question. I suppose. I'm a little bit of a cheat in some regards, because all of the guests we've had on board so far. I They've either read, and we had a chap called Carl on array who's an international best selling author, and he writes about slowing down. Or I've done therapy with. So we had a hypnotherapist called Karthika, Alexandra, wonderful woman who does regression therapy, and she actually helped me repair some childhood trauma. Or we've had Liam who is the legal legally certified psilocybin guide. And as I alluded earlier on, I am no stranger to psilocybin therapy. So, I suppose what, what we're trying to do with the show is I, I was suicidal, once, seven years ago, I came immensely close to actually shooting myself a loaded gun in my mouth. My Beagle stopped me from from killing myself. And I've had this long journey of recovery of from almost taking my life to then realising I still had major problems, my mum died, she was an alcoholic, so I had to, I had to deal with that. And that whole grieving process actually was the beginning of my healing journey. But it was also immensely hard, because we had a lot of unresolved issues. So So then fast forward to packing it all in and moving to Bali. I've now been clean and sober almost four years. And when I came to Bali, I decided just to do no work in inverted commas, but the work so I put myself on this intense journey over a couple of years, and I did, and all the things we've been talking about today, the yoga meditation, silent retreats, plant medicines, I went to South America and worked with Ayahuasca shaman and did wash humour, went to the Amazon hung out with the Nokia Quinn tribe, and did plant medicines with them. Qi Gong I've just started to to, absent absent mindedly practice, but I've just started to get into Qigong. So So in discovering all of these wonderful practices, and you said this earlier, I'm actually interested in ancient practices as well, right. breathwork another thing, I realised that I had become incredibly happy. And And along that journey, I realised I was in the main actually managing to, I'd forgive myself, I loved myself in a healthy way for the first time in 44 years. And I picked up all these practices and, and I'd also discovered that I could live a life of non attachment. So So I realised that I, if you told me, I had five minutes to live right now, I would die with no regrets. And which is, you know, sounds pretty easy when you say it, but it's quite a big deal, isn't it? And so that's, that's what the podcast is all about. It's about trying to introduce in these little bite size episodes, meeting wonderful people like you who have these, this a take on a on a on a, on a life subject, on life or on death. And of course, we talked about life death, we talked about health, and happiness. And, and I think that's why we're enjoying making this podcast so much because we get to meet so many talented, inspiring, informative, transformative people who can just offer an hour, an hour and a half's worth of, of advice and just plant the seeds, you know. So it's a real long answer to your question. Apologies and apologies to everyone for listening to me ramble chatting on. But I think that hopefully answers your question.
Lauren Lovatt 1:33:57
Totally. Yeah. And I think it's really amazing like you you're doing, like highlighting different people. And it is when you even do, you know, devote your life to what you want to be doing what you say about, you know, really doing the work. It's, you know, incredible what, what can come out of that. And it's all those little tips that you pick up on the way and I mean, chi gong, I've also recently really got into so I'll be excited to see how that how that goes for you. But it's, yeah, a very transformative thing. It's always interesting to find people that have, you know, adapted these practices and what they've got out of them as well. So, yeah, I love that.
Martin O'Toole 1:34:32
Well, actually, you'll be interested next week, next week. Next week. We have the international Qigong Master LEE Holden, coming on the show. Wow. Who is an incredibly inspiring man. Also very gentle. He's got a lovely voice. So he's, he's coming at us from California somewhere, isn't he? Next week, so yeah, tune into that. Well, thank you so much, Lauren. Have really, really enjoyed speaking to you. It's been incredible having you on the show and certainly never never had to hide a rumbling tummy so much on a podcast.
Lauren Lovatt 1:35:11
Yeah, no. Thank you so much for having me. No, it's been it's been really, really great. And I yeah, be excited to tune into future episode. So thank you. So
Julia Malcolmson 1:35:20
thanks, Lauren. It's been so inspiring and just just to really witness and hear your passion behind what you're doing. And I think that's a lot of what I'm seeing from the podcast is people's passion.
Martin O'Toole 1:35:31
Yeah. Yeah. And living your dream and being able to share that. And I think the other thing is that we, we talk about how to die happy being the concept of sharing stories and practical utilities for the arts of living and dying. Well, the idea being that of course, if you can learn to live well, then ultimately, when you're when your numbers up, hopefully, you'll be in a better position to die well, or at least more peacefully. And so what I've especially enjoyed about our conversation today is you've given our listeners an absolute pile of of utilities, opportune opportunities and things they could do little changes they could make and ingredients and, and all the ingredients for an incredible plant based desserts. So thank you, thank you. We would love to have you back on if you've enjoyed yourself. And we wish you all the very best with this book. I know that it's going to be a phenomenal success.
Lauren Lovatt 1:36:34
Thank you so much.
Julia Malcolmson 1:36:35
thanks Lauren
