SUMMARY KEYWORDS
fabian, ken, irish pub, naked, regrets, thumb, realised, express, wanted, hand, people, call, pulled, behaviour, toe, life, german, party, bit, talk, sexual assault, homosexual, heterosexual, toe fetish
SPEAKERS
Martin O'Toole, Chris Siracuse
Chris Siracuse 00:05
Alright, we're rolling
Martin O'Toole 00:06
lumed way
Chris Siracuse 00:10
you you can hear yourself right?
Martin O'Toole 00:17
Yes, but can you hear me Chris? That's the question
Chris Siracuse 00:20
I can do only enough.
Martin O'Toole 00:22
Do you recognise that song? It was from a TV show called Sesame Street, which is an American show. So I assume is a children's programme so I assumed you would have known it.
Chris Siracuse 00:35
Why do I know the show? I guess I just don't know. I don't know the jingle sing it again for me.
Martin O'Toole 00:40
Learn to heal.
Chris Siracuse 00:45
I mean, all you're doing is counting. That was the whole point.
Martin O'Toole 00:48
It's like a kids show in their educational so they, they, they wrapped up learning in, in the Trojan horse of music theatre and and play.
Chris Siracuse 00:59
Okay. Yeah, I remember the show. I never really watched it that much. They had
Martin O'Toole 01:02
a puppet who, who taught maths and he was called Count Dracula. And he would just go one. AH to AH, yeah,
Chris Siracuse 01:16
I remember three count. Ah, yeah. Okay, so are you setting up for today's chinwag? I just want you warming up just just in my head a warming up your vocal cords.
Martin O'Toole 01:29
There's no resent no link whatsoever to what I was saying. And what I'm going to say apart from I'll tell you what I will do. I'll tend tenuously linked to the number three. Because this is chinwag number three. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome one and all
Chris Siracuse 01:44
one and all.
Martin O'Toole 01:47
How's it going, Chris? Oh, good. Yeah, yeah, it's
Chris Siracuse 01:49
gone. Well, for sure. Yeah. Found a new audio editing software that I'm eager to kick out on. Nice. Yeah. So a little shout out. Any audio engineers, sound editor has in Bali that would like to be part of a up and coming podcast. We'd love to hear from
Martin O'Toole 02:06
you. Yeah, that's a actually that is a fair shout. Because
Chris Siracuse 02:09
yours truly is stretched a little bit at the moment. So
Martin O'Toole 02:15
I have no idea what any of this stuff does. I just make a noise into the microphone. I got a bit of an interesting chinwag fire this week.
Chris Siracuse 02:25
Do you? Yeah. I'm coming to look forward to this.
Martin O'Toole 02:33
I wonder if the audience feels the same? I don't know. To comment. Let us know how you're feeling about our chin Wags,
Chris Siracuse 02:40
we're very open to constructive criticism we are.
Martin O'Toole 02:42
Feedback is the breakfast of champions as I was once told.
Chris Siracuse 02:46
Okay.
Martin O'Toole 02:48
So you got for me? Well, you know, the thread of the how to die happy podcast is deathbed regrets, right? The most common deathbed regrets
Chris Siracuse 02:58
considering I'm producing the show and hope that I know that.
Martin O'Toole 03:01
Excellent. Well done. So one of the deathbed regrets is I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings. And on meditating what I'd like to talk about in the chinwag this week, I can't I happened upon in the annals of my dusty memory. Particularly bizarre event that happened to me, probably around 2009 Maybe. And so I'd like to tell you a story about the time someone tried to express their true feelings to me. And it perhaps didn't quite work out as intended.
Chris Siracuse 03:43
I say. Okay, so the theme for I guess the basis for this week's chinwag is the deathbed regret of I wish I would have expressed myself more fully or more, or
Martin O'Toole 03:57
Yeah, I would. Yeah, I think I wish, I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings.
Chris Siracuse 04:03
So this person in the story that you're going to tell me today, they went all out, they went all out and they really took that to heart. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, I tend to be on the side of reserving more of my emotions for this very reason that people Yeah, you open that up and people are like, Oh, well, let me tell you about it. Let me show you how I feel. So um, anyway, we'll we'll see here so this this person in the story feels about you and how they express this to you.
Martin O'Toole 04:36
Yeah, and I suppose before I start I'll say that those who know me and perhaps those who are even listening to my my rambling chatters with you will know that I wear my heart on my sleeve, you know, so with me, you you you know what you're getting, you know, I say what I see occasionally I have no filter But it's never meant with any disrespect. And so so I always express my true feelings doing for better or for worse. Which is interesting because I was on the receiving end of this particular experience. So way back when I used to live in, I lived in a central European city. I'm not going to mention the city because the person in question deserves some anonymity.
Chris Siracuse 05:25
Can you give us the country? I'd rather not. So no country no city now unless you say Central
Martin O'Toole 05:31
Europe. Okay, fair enough. It's yeah, yeah, it's best that way. And we, in the Central European city, there was a there was a pub was an Irish Pub. And, you know, there Irish pubs everywhere, right there. I don't know if you've ever realised that you know, for sure being China and you'll find an Irish pub, definitely through Costco. There's an Irish pub, something funny that Irish pubs pop up everywhere around the world in some of the strangest places, and it was an Irish Pub in this particular town. And I was, as you know, by now a full fully fledged alcoholic. And it did enjoy a good pint of Guinness, and oysters, oysters and Guinness, that was a thing. So myself and all the other expats living and working in this particular city just gravitated towards the Irish pub, because of course, it was an English speaking bar. And so I made some friends, some drinking buddies in this bar. Some close friends and some people I just sort of knew to say hello to. And one day I was I was invited back to a house party was actually a roof party of a place owned by a wonderful Canadian chap who we shall call Ken.
Chris Siracuse 06:55
Okay. But the wonderful Canadian chap named Ken Yeah, that's unnamed. A central European country and city. Okay. So we're an Irish Pub. Yeah. Well,
Martin O'Toole 07:07
we've left the Irish pub where the Irish pub, we're at Ken's on the on the roof terrace, and there's a party going on. There's music playing, and there's lots of beautiful people milling around lots of alcohol. I mean, I don't remember much about anything of those days. But I have a sense that I'd been drinking a lot that day. Because the whole thing sort of blurred, you know, it kind of has it does when you're super drunk. And I found myself around the back of the roof terrace on a you know, one of these fancy outdoor seats and sitting adjacent to me was this German professor, who we shall call Fabian. And Fabian was a very stylish man he's always wearing. I think he always wore white. He always wore jackets. He always wore a Federer a hat, you know, like something out of the movies. But he was German. So and he had he had spectacles as well. So kind of reminded me a little bit of that the baddie in Raiders of the Lost Ark. You know the baddy? Baddy, baddy where you know you've got a goodie in a movie, oh, you've got a baddie as well
Chris Siracuse 08:19
as like the, the antagonists. Yeah, well, the bad person, the bad guy. Okay. So here, so this German professor, stylish German professor wears this Fedora reminds you of a bad guy in a movie.
Martin O'Toole 08:31
Yeah, but no. I mean, he was actually a really nice guy. I think it was Morris stylings, good styling. I see. And I'm sitting there with whatever shirt pair of jeans and flip flops on. Right. And I'm just sticky lating as I do when I'm talking and then obviously waving some drink around and probably smoking I think at that time. And I'm having a super animated conversation with this chap. And there were a couple of other people who I was holding court with. And he was just really entertained, constantly entertained by what I was saying. And after, I don't know how long after a certain period of time, he was very close to me at this point, physically, physically, and he suddenly lunged forward, grabbed me by the ankle, pulled me from my seat, and stuffed my big toe into his mouth. And started trying to I don't know it was kind of like, bite it or bite it right now this caused a great deal of surprise. Not withstanding for me, but with the other people all around and all right, well, baby. What you doing man?
Chris Siracuse 09:54
Is my toe brown.
Martin O'Toole 09:55
So I pulled my foot back. I think Ken might have actually grabbed him and said had a Fabian Calm down man sits him down. You know, everyone sort of stopped. And then everyone thought, Okay, well, that's fine. And everyone went back to their thing.
Chris Siracuse 10:12
How do you just go back to normal after? Well,
Martin O'Toole 10:14
I didn't. So I'm like, Fabian. What? On Earth?
Chris Siracuse 10:20
We got to have a word on. It
Martin O'Toole 10:21
just happened there. I am sorry, Matt. I just find you're so attractive. I'm not very good accent so I apologise to all of our German listeners.
Chris Siracuse 10:32
All of our listeners. We apologise to all of our listeners
Martin O'Toole 10:36
all the time. Sorry. So he's, I'm so sorry, Martin, but I just find you so attractive. And I'm like, Yeah, but, dude.
Chris Siracuse 10:47
I appreciate it. I'm flattered. Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 10:49
all of that. Exactly. But you can't just kind of grab somebody's foot and then bite on their toe like that. That's No, I just I liked your feet.
Chris Siracuse 11:02
Okay.
Martin O'Toole 11:05
Okay. Okay. So you still with me?
Chris Siracuse 11:07
I mean, yeah, as as much as I can be. So
Martin O'Toole 11:17
I don't know how many more hours passed by but the party sort of waned. It went, I think it was pretty late. And then it was just me. Fabian, can sit in around this coffee table. And Ken Like rolls up a huge joint. And he saw, you know, takes a couple of hits on it. I mean, I wasn't doing drugs. I don't think at that time. But I don't know.
Chris Siracuse 11:43
You weren't doing drugs at that time. Now. You're a raging alcoholic, but you weren't doing drugs? Well, I
Martin O'Toole 11:48
didn't need any drugs or alcohol. Well, let's be clear. Alcohol is a drug. Oh, yeah, for sure. But I wasn't doing class A's or well, any any other drugs, just just drinking a lot. But I was drinking a lot of like drinking a lot. But anyway, so okay. Yeah, it was like, next level high functioning stuff. And so I'm kind of like when in Rome, I wasn't in Rome. Incidentally. It was a central European. Not telling you. So I had to go on the on the joint. And it was it was pretty heavy stuff, as I recall, but I was no stranger to to this sort of behaviour. And I pass this joint to Fabian and he has a go. And I think he maybe gives it back to Ken and we're you know, we're always thinking I think Ken and I think you Well, that was great, but this part is pretty much over and then suddenly Fabian leans over and grabs my foot again. pulls me out fecking chair like Baby, what are you doing, man? Fabian, get off the phone. Right at this point, Ken's literally pulling him back and he's like, What are you doing, man? Right. So I'm, I'm in shock at this, because it actually actually hurt my toe. If I recall this time he actually bit down on the knuckle. So I'm going, Fabian, honestly, you were asked before I don't think I don't think it's appropriate. To do this a second time. Ken says You're damn right. Get out of my house. Fabian. Oh, I'm so sorry. I just find them so attractive. No, get out. Right. So can basically frog marches down these spiral stairs into the apartment. I'm sort of sitting there still in shock. And I gather myself I come downstairs. I remember I had a can can a be a large kind of beer. And Ken's on the phone. Ordering a cap for Fabian? Like, where is he? You guys? He's just going into the bathroom and I'm like, Wow, I'm like what the? Yeah, right. Because this guy is he's a he's a pretty prestigious professor, a prestigious school.
Chris Siracuse 13:54
Okay, I mean, everybody has their thing so Well,
Martin O'Toole 13:57
indeed. So I'm looking at Ken he's on the phone. Yeah, the door opens up and out. Marches Fabian. Totally naked. Nice. Any rooms at Camp Ken was Ken was a big Canadian bear of a guy. Fabian, on the other hand was sort of you know, skinny but out of shape. You know, little Ponch very pale, very naked man. No Federer Of course. So at this point, I realised that he was bald as well think he was bald. He was bald. So was it like a giant baby with with a sort of? Well, he was around let's put it that way. And he really and he ran at at Ken and tried to grapple in. Now can this was a step too far in Ken's book, especially since
Chris Siracuse 14:59
this was a step two Far Right I think we crossed that threshold.
Martin O'Toole 15:07
But this is Ken's house or Ken's apartment. So that's it. Anyway, king goes Fuck you, buddy. And he picks Sabian up like he was a rag doll and he saw slams him down on him on the floor not to hurt him just to stop him from because he was trying to guide Ken you've got to subdue him. Yeah, he's trying to bite him at this point. So I'm I was sitting on the sofa with a can of beer. Ashen. Yasha. Ash and white. Very painful. Okay, mouth wide open. What on earth is happening here? What was in that joint? Like we smoking PCP.
Chris Siracuse 15:50
It does kind of seem like a PCP sort of thing.
Martin O'Toole 15:53
He can assured me it was just weed but I swear
Chris Siracuse 15:56
that is kind of PCP behaviour.
Martin O'Toole 15:58
That's what I thought right? This is bizarre behaviour. So but
Chris Siracuse 16:01
but also, I mean, the guy had already twice tried to suck on your big toe out of nowhere. So
Martin O'Toole 16:08
yeah, and the second time to bite it right. So Wow. So I was I think I was in shock. But Ken's good. Martin Martin. Hold him down. I'm like, well, he's naked. He's around. He's around and he's thrashing he was thrashing as well as little white bald naked German guy thrashing on the floor. Hold him down. I'm calling him a taxi. I'm like how are you gonna get him in the taxi cabs anyway, so obviously I'm drunk enough to just deal with them told at this point, throw and throw reason out the window. And the reasons gone man reasons been gone for a while. So I kneel down by Fabian and I put my hands firmly on his chest and I say, Fabian, don't move buddy. Right Ken's like nice. Thanks. So he's he gets back on the phone. It's because taxi taxi firm. We're still on the line. You know, you'd have the phone. naked guy wrestled him. He dropped the phone. He picked the phone back up. Hello. Hello. So he's he's on the phone trying to organise his taxi. And I'm sort of looking at Ken. And then I suddenly feel this pain like I have never ever felt ever before. It's a shooting hot, stinging pain. And I look down at my hand. And Fabian has clamped down on the root knuckle over my right thumb. He is trying to take my thumb off I am Wow. Like, like everything he was giving everything he had this square pound pressure. You know what I mean? pressure per square pound in his jaw to take my thumb off. It was agony. And of course, had this sudden realisation I'm gonna get off maybe and I tried to I tried to yank my I tried to yank my hand away, but then you would, you would actually bite harder. So he's and he had old he had both hands around my wrist. So he's basically trying to stuff my whole hand, you know, to eat my hand. And he's naked. So twisted. Right. So just to summarise there. There isn't a white, very pale, white, naked German professor bold on the floor. He is he's got my hand firmly in his grip, and he's trying to pull my thumb off with his teeth. And I begged him I begged him several times to let go, but the pain was increasingly tougher because he dislocated it. So it actually pulled so hard he put you pulled my my thumb out of the joint. So regrettably, I had to hit him. And I hit him in. Sadly, I hit him in the face several times because he wouldn't let go. And of course, every time I hit him a bit down harder. It's like honestly, it was almost like he this is what he wanted. I think this was the result he was seeking to be here to be hit. So the harder I hit him the harder he bid and he made some very strange noises. I'm not going to share them on a podcast, you know, I mean, I'm not saying this as a family podcast, but I don't think anybody ever needs to hear these sounds. I think I think we all can imagine the kind of like a groaning noise you know, but not like groaning
Chris Siracuse 19:31
slash moaning moaning is Yeah, no,
Martin O'Toole 19:34
not at all. My face hurts grown you know? Yeah, I'm not gonna try to remedy you hate I I'm, I'm game if you want to.
Chris Siracuse 19:42
I you know, I don't want to have to apologise the audience even more. Okay, imagine a grown moan to groaning man.
Martin O'Toole 19:51
It was it was it was dark. That's all I'm gonna say. So I don't know how many times I hit him sadly. But he did eventually just he was unconscious. You knocked him unconscious knocked him out, unfortunately and there was a lot of blood and this guy from him from him was heard, ya know, obviously got my hand back had these incredible teeth Mark, do
Chris Siracuse 20:17
you have a scar? No, I
Martin O'Toole 20:18
don't have a skirt anymore but I have arthritis. Now in my I have rheumatoid rheumatoid arthritis in this thumb. Excuse me. So Ken's already put the phone down. By this time, obviously. And I sit back on the sofa, pick up the can of beer. There is a naked, bald German guy on the wooden floor in this apart unconscious and bleeding in a pool of his own bowel. My God, Martin, and I look at Ken and Ken looks at me. He just likes to sit calmly hands me a cigarette. I take the other. And he says, I think he's dead.
Chris Siracuse 21:16
I hope he's not. And I'm like,
Martin O'Toole 21:19
Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that myself. I mean, I'm in shock. I'm serious in shot. And I realise that actually, I can't hold this beer can properly because my thumb is this strange angle because it's been pulled out of its socket. Okay. By this man's Nashes.
Chris Siracuse 21:35
It didn't occur to either of you to call the ambulance at this point.
Martin O'Toole 21:39
Well, it's funny you say that? Because the first concern we had was? Where are we going to hide the body? Oh my Wow. Yeah. Like we were fairly well gone. And this guy was he wasn't moving. So and so you know, there was a rogue and we were gonna roll him up in a rogue we discussed where we might drop him, like the fall. I hasten to add listeners, this was Martin version 1.0. And I've been very clear about that chap, he had. He had a few issues to to iron through. Well, and
Chris Siracuse 22:17
you know, as we've found out through the course of this half hour, 22 minutes at this point, Fabian had his own issues
Martin O'Toole 22:28
full show.
Chris Siracuse 22:30
So I think he shares a little bit of the responsibility for his current condition.
Martin O'Toole 22:35
I'm glad you said that, Chris. Because actually, you sort of bringing this back to my to my main memory bank so I could process the story for you and the listeners. I do wonder if there's still a little trauma locked inside me for this event?
Chris Siracuse 22:54
Anyway, yeah, I would think I would hope Yeah, I don't know what is Well, anyway, keep going. And then we can explore the trauma.
Martin O'Toole 23:02
Okay, well, he wasn't dead. So that's the main thing. So thankfully, when we were in this, we'd finished the cigarette. We were in the phases of thinking, Okay, well rap, and when the railgun take him to the woods. And then he started to twitch, thankfully, it I should, I should say is hands and arms are twitching just just for the clarity sake. And so I'm like, well, and I went straight into fight or flight mode, of course, because I'm expecting another tooth related attack. So So Ken says, Martin, you go up, you go back upstairs, buddy gives me a fresh can and sends me upstairs. So I think actually fell asleep on the on the sofa upstairs. And Ken, that can help him get up and he helped him clean him off. And they said, Look, you know, I don't know what you want to do about this. Fabian, but, you know, that was self defence. What you've done is pretty on a scale of one to unacceptable. We're on a 17. So I don't know how you want to handle this. But if you do think we should call the police. And I agree, I think we should call the police and just tell them everything that's happened and it's you know, it's up to them to decide how we deal with this. Which I thought was very fair of Ken. And despite the fact that I was unconscious on the sofa upstairs. I was with him on that one.
Chris Siracuse 24:30
Asleep.
Martin O'Toole 24:31
I was in sparker Yeah, just fell asleep. I had been up all night. This was an all night party. It was light it was light as we the sun was coming up as we sat in this surreal scenario. You know you've got Dawn you've got the naked professor, you've got pilot pull the puddle of blood and you've got two guys smoking a cigarette. This is like a Quentin
Chris Siracuse 24:50
Tarantino film was a little bit like that. So okay, so at this point, Fabian is now conscious.
Martin O'Toole 24:57
Yeah. So Ken manages to say him off to the bathroom to sort himself out and
Chris Siracuse 25:05
still naked.
Martin O'Toole 25:06
We'll see what's the naked he was encouraged to put his clothes back on. And sadly, he came back out naked again. And then ran into Ken son's bedroom as a 21 year old Whoa, who was in bed managed to sleep through this whole thing. He had been in the party and jumped into bed with him naked and tried to. Well, I don't know where he attempted some amorous activity. So he was promptly kicked out of the bedroom by the sun, which point it ping pong around from there into Ken's arms at which point can literally lobbed him out of the apartment door, threw his clothes after him and said, now you've, you've burnt, you've burnt your room, you've burnt all the credits. And so of course, I find all this out the next day. So then the next day, I come downstairs and we then I'm in a lot of shock. And I realised that Ken's done like a field dressing bandage had relocated my thumb for me, I had this huge bandage, you know, like a drunken bandage on me. So what did we do, we promptly went off to to another house party and drank Bloody Marys all day, and then went on a bender, unfortunately. But through that morning, I discovered what had happened in it. So essentially, Fabian had obviously jumped into the bed with a 21 year old son being kicked out. Ken then gets a complaint from the building manager, saying, we've looked at the CCTV, there is vomit, and all over the inside of the lift. And we looked at the CCTV, and we saw a kid carrying his clothes, it didn't put the clothes back on. He walked out a bit. Apparently, the CCTV followed him in the lift naked, walking down the corridor naked out the door naked, and he walked off naked, carrying his clothes. Obviously, that worked for where I've been been knocked out. I think he might have lost some tea. I'm not entirely sure about that. And that was it. And I saw Fabian, about a few weeks later in the Irish Pub. And he had sunglasses on, because he was unfortunately still his face was still healing. He had his Federer hat on. And I just saw said Fabian, and his friend, Martin said, Have a good night. You too.
Chris Siracuse 27:44
And that was it.
Martin O'Toole 27:45
And I never I never heard anything more of it. He never spoke to anybody about it. Ken and I never spoke about it again. Obviously, we blocked it out with the rest of the weekend activities. I saw I did some googling. Okay, let
Chris Siracuse 28:04
me let me just take a second and process everything that I've just heard.
Martin O'Toole 28:09
That is fair.
Chris Siracuse 28:12
One, I think most importantly, I'm glad everyone was okay. Yeah, me too glad. Fabian isn't dead. I'm glad you didn't lose your your finger, your thumb. Or your toe. Looks like he was trying to get a hold of that too or sound like you're trying to get hold of that too.
Martin O'Toole 28:26
He did live a digit.
Chris Siracuse 28:29
It also seems that Fabian kind of got what he wanted was a certain dynamic here that he must have been I mean, he's an intelligent man. Yeah, he understand intelligent what happens when when you act that way? Yeah. So now go ahead. Tell me about the research and we'll get into more of the philosophy that underpins this, but now
Martin O'Toole 28:55
we can philosophise it well, the only the only thing I wanted to share was I was obviously curious about this and doing a bit of research I discovered something called odacc. Cell Lagen Yeah. adaxial agonia. Which apparently according to Wikipedia, is a paraphilia involving sexual arousal through biting or being bitten a paraphilia. Yeah, which is like a type of fetish I think. A DAX or DAX cell Ladnier is considered a mild form of sadomasochism. Bla bla bla, bla bla bla. So this is a thing. Obviously, I've up in around the world. I've done some stuff. And as you may be gathering by now, I got a few stories. But this was new to me. Yeah, like,
Chris Siracuse 29:51
this is unique.
Martin O'Toole 29:52
Yeah. Yeah. This is not something you ever want to happen again, in your lifetime or in any lifetimes. I don't know how many times As I've been been back to Earth school, but I would wager it's nuts the first last ever happened to me.
Chris Siracuse 30:08
Well, you have to wonder if you do believe in past lives and reincarnation, which we both do. You have to wonder how you two were connected in a previous life?
Martin O'Toole 30:20
Yeah. What was the?
Chris Siracuse 30:21
What was the time? Yeah, what was the time before this?
Martin O'Toole 30:24
What was the soul contract? Maybe I met him? Well, maybe
Chris Siracuse 30:26
maybe you were a cannibal. And you, you know, conquered his tribe and ate everybody ate everybody. This is considered possible. Yeah, sorry. It's possible that he just liked your toes and your fingers and just wanted to chomp on him because it gave him a certain amount of sexual pleasure.
Martin O'Toole 30:45
I I've never had anybody telling me that I had nice toes. They're quite hairy like hobbits toes. Well, I mean, nice fingers. I've heard that nice fingers like pianists fingers and this heinous. But it was my thumb that he want. He wanted he went down. Oh, my gosh.
Chris Siracuse 31:03
So Well, I think it's nice that you've taken a little bit of time to, to research this. Yeah. And say, Well, you know, he has a condition. He's gotta condition
Martin O'Toole 31:16
as I have said to you on I'll take two times on this podcast. Chris. I respect everyone's true.
Chris Siracuse 31:21
Yeah. You know, and this is, this is one of those instances when Yeah, you can respect somebody's truth all day. But at what point does their truth start to interfere with your truth, your truth being very simple, which is you don't want some random naked German professor trying to bite your thumb off? Well, I
Martin O'Toole 31:42
would say right about the time you thumb knuckle deep in their mouth, that's probably about the time it's an overstep. But to But all that said, I have. I've done a lot of things that I regret in my life. And I suppose it made me it made me question that whole weekend, and obviously the the excess the alcohol, parent, PCP, we were all smoking. And, and how I, how would I have dealt with that differently? Were I not? If I'd been sober? Well, here's the thing. I wouldn't even been there.
Chris Siracuse 32:17
You wouldn't have been there. Exactly. But perhaps I mean, you do talk about CO creating, which I think is a great way to frame the drama, and the problems that we create in our lives, basically acknowledging that, yes, everybody has a certain amount of responsibility. But at the end of the day, if it involves you, you always have a certain level of responsibility. Absolutely. Even something like this where, you know, you didn't really do anything other than you are an attractive man, that this guy wanted to get a hold of, say, Christopher. Well, I mean, I'm just speaking objectively from not my personal preference, but to
Martin O'Toole 32:54
me to put some socks on.
Chris Siracuse 32:57
Oh, good, thank you. I can handle it, at least for the time being. So yeah, you did you did create this in some way, shape, or form? Yeah. No doubt. And question is how and what? So anyway, go ahead. So you're saying that you this, this made you look at your behaviour, and look at the situations that you're putting yourself and, like, you know, what other kind of people were at this party?
Martin O'Toole 33:20
I love to tell you, but I was so drunk, I can't really remember. I seem to recall, it was a real mix. It was a real mix of pretty drunk people who were all hanging out in this Irish Pub. It wasn't. It wasn't a freaky. It wasn't a sex party. Or, to my knowledge, people weren't all hammering a lot of drugs in the corner or anything like that. That was I think that was probably what was what made the event so shocking. It was entirely unexpected. And his behaviour was entirely unexpected because ordinarily, this chat was a very, when you'd see him he had drink wine in this Irish Pub is the only guy drinking wine in an Irish Pub. Everyone else's is necking, pints and pints of Guinness, right? Only person drinking wine and he was very civilised. And he was very, I used to love talking to him. It was wonderful to speak to an articulate intelligent person admits this mad. This mad venue and this mad time of my life as well. So we had enjoyed one another's conversation several times, but at no point did I express any interest whatsoever in digit chomping.
Chris Siracuse 34:34
You got to be careful of the quiet types, right? Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 34:38
Well, I wonder that perhaps that's the moral of the story. So on the one hand, we're talking about people, regretting not expressing their true feelings and their their true nature. But on the other hand, it's not always a good idea to wear your heart on your sleeve. No,
Chris Siracuse 34:53
it's not because I am not going to pretend to know what Fabian is thinking now. I am Imagine Well, I don't know, I guess he, what do you think? Do you think that he looks back on this event? And regrets expressing his true feelings and that way, or do you think he looks back on it? And it's like, I'm so glad I did that. I've got that in the Spank years. I'm so glad I express my truth. And I didn't die. God I didn't die that Well, I mean, but he probably lyric clearly to what? Yeah, I'm not going to speculate on that. But clearly, like you said, there, there was some I mean, it even says in the technical definition of this this condition. There's Sadia, Saito Mac mouth. Yeah. Mouth. sadomasochism, masochism, masochism, masochism massacre. That's a hard word sadomasochism, Sado masochism, you get it. Okay, great. I got it. So clearly, he wanted to get there was there was some pain pleasure thing going on there. Well,
Martin O'Toole 36:01
I'm really pleased that you're asking all these questions, because this is not something I ever allowed myself to do. And to. As we've discussed, I forgiven him. I forgive myself for for Asian, relating Hiner the deaf. Yeah, but I don't think I've ever really got into his motivation. But it's quite it was clear to me that this this guy wanted to be hurt. He wanted to hurt and to be hurt. The injury that I took months and for my son to to get back back to it. And he was black. He was, I mean, this guy really did like
Chris Siracuse 36:38
a number on tried to pull it off. I really think that he probably, this is going to go down is one of those things like I'm so glad I did that.
Martin O'Toole 36:47
Like I'm really pleased I express my feelings. Exactly.
Chris Siracuse 36:49
As far as the deathbed regrets goes, I wonder, I wonder is like, that was on his bucket list. Meeting some hot dude at a party. And just like wanting it's like, today's the day
Martin O'Toole 37:04
you can do it. You can do it. Fabian. You can just even the bathroom, like half hour before just like motivate himself.
Chris Siracuse 37:15
Yes. To be fair to him, you stuck around after to know after one time? Yeah, read the first time and then you guys are all sitting around a table. Just the three of you. You stuck around that in some small way was kind of enabling. So you might
Martin O'Toole 37:33
have actually seen it as it Yeah, but he Little did he realise you know, I was the biggest alcoholic in the party. Yeah, you want to hang out with it always stayed too late. I was always I was always the last guy who
Chris Siracuse 37:43
maybe sending the wrong signals there,
Martin O'Toole 37:45
perhaps has been kind we were having an articulate conversation we were discussing the classics, and and philosophy. And, yeah, he obviously ticked a number of his boxes down here and top that off with a hairy toe and you're into a territory.
Chris Siracuse 38:04
Yeah, that's it. And this is why I not this exact situation. But this being an example of why I tend to want to keep a little bit of distance between people and why I wouldn't say I repress things, but I recognise when there's some kind of desire inside of me, and I do my best to pass it through a vetting internal vetting process, which is, what am I really getting out of expressing this right is is it? Is it okay, so to speak? Is it fulfilling me isn't imposing my will on to someone else? Yeah. And in that case, but I but I do appreciate your ability to wear your heart on your sleeve. There is actually something I kind of appreciate about Fabian, I mean, if you really break it down, again, removing the the, the socket, you got to admire somebody that just goes at it like
Martin O'Toole 38:57
that. Well, that's one of the reasons. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about it because it's good. He did he he expressed his true feelings. Well, he didn't altogether, I kind of wish he had actually been a bit more articulate about what he was thinking.
Chris Siracuse 39:12
I mean, I would I wish we could have him on the show. Like, we just break this down, what exactly was going through your head, but this is the this is the thing, though, this is the core of it that even someone like that highly intelligent, sophisticated, man is, is in some ways at the mercy of I guess you would call it the lizard brain, the primal this primal things that drive all of us. And depending on how good you are at keeping that in check, that could very easily as we've seen overwhelm the body and take complete control clearly. And clearly it did.
Martin O'Toole 39:55
Yeah, but then wow. But then surely we can all say we've been in that city. Not that situation, I
Chris Siracuse 40:02
think there are very few people that can say they've been in that situation. Probably more people walked in the moon that have been
Martin O'Toole 40:08
listening to this show has had this happen to them. I want to hear from
Chris Siracuse 40:11
you please, please let us know. Because
Martin O'Toole 40:14
perhaps we could form a small victims group. Just be the two of us. I should be wearing shoes, both of you wearing shoes. But now what I meant to say was we have all done things, whether we will admit it or not. Admit it in public, or even to ourselves. We've all done things. To answer that, that hunger, that lizard brain driving and some point in our lives. I mean, I might be wrong. I also might be right. And I think there's something in I think there's something in that mindlessness. But then of course, you then have to throw alcohol and narcotics, and no sleep for a whole night. And you know, you have to throw all of that into the mix. And I think that's I don't know about you, but we were talking about this earlier on. What another deathbed regret is I wish I'd taken better care of my body. for over 20 years, I put this body through how and all of the injuries, most of the injuries I sustained. And there were big injuries. I'm sure we'll get into them at some point, because of more stories attached to them, but broken bones and blindness and so on and so forth. Were all they all came hand in hand with a serious dose of alcohol and drugs. Anyway, I didn't want to shift the moral there. Because I think, I think fundamentally, he did he expressed his true feelings express
Chris Siracuse 41:46
this truth. He Well, like I said earlier, his truth collided with your truth. And my here's my this is how I measure whether or not something is acceptable or not. Because I don't really believe in good or bad right or wrong. Quite right. Oh, quite wrong, or quite, quite right. Quite in the middle, right in the middle. But if you're imposing your will on to someone else, you know, it's just not really acceptable.
Martin O'Toole 42:13
Well, I think that's where the definition can be found, isn't it? I think square manipulation or the removal of Free Will comes into play. I think that's that's where that's where the debate becomes more obvious.
Chris Siracuse 42:27
Yeah. Yeah. And also where it gets tricky when you talk about sexual pleasure. Because there's something clearly there was something about that grey area of consent and freewill Yeah, that you're playing in IU specifically, but that we play around with it seemed like Fabian was kind of playing around with two.
Martin O'Toole 42:47
Yeah, I suppose. I can't remember if I knew, I think I might have nothing. I don't think I knew his sexuality. I I'm, as you probably aware, I'm, I'm completely accepting of anybody's sexuality and whatever. And, and whatever people think and feel, as well. But I've never, I've never been bisexual or homosexual. And I certainly wasn't flirting with him.
Chris Siracuse 43:19
Well, that's what I mean, though. Although,
Martin O'Toole 43:21
I wonder if he saw the flirtation in the in the banter, you know, in social media. I actually sent he was a very lonely man. And I think he was sort of super happy to be be having a bit of banter with somebody and talking about things that genuinely excited him.
Chris Siracuse 43:40
Yeah, absolutely. I'm clearly fingers and toes. Clearly, you turned them on. So, I mean, you are a very charming chap. And it's very kind of you to say, Yeah, but but that's what I mean, though, there. Maybe there was something in that, you know, the we not just Fabian, a lot of us maybe get aroused or stimulated by the idea that we can bring people on to whatever it is that we're about. Yeah, right. And it's a fine line. Like, you could be imposing your will. But you could also just be influencing people and persuading them. Right. And it's a fine line, though. It is
Martin O'Toole 44:13
in fine line. And of course, had he not expressed his true feelings and his true self then. Well, well, all in all, in that particular event, then nobody would have lost that he just kept his teeth to himself. Yeah, but
Chris Siracuse 44:27
he would have always regretted it.
Martin O'Toole 44:29
I suspect so.
Chris Siracuse 44:30
I suspect so too. Well, this was a story.
Martin O'Toole 44:37
I've got some I got a few stories.
Chris Siracuse 44:38
Thank you for sharing a little bit different than last week.
Martin O'Toole 44:43
Well, I figured we should be chopping it up.
Chris Siracuse 44:45
Yeah, let's mix it up. Yeah, so. Okay, and where did we go?
Martin O'Toole 44:50
I think we just go,
Chris Siracuse 44:51
we go. Okay. Well, thank you for listening, everyone. If you've made it this far, it means that you're you're committed at least in a small way to hear and Martin and I talk
Martin O'Toole 45:02
which we can never fully express in in levels of gratitude I have to say we we had thickness
Chris Siracuse 45:11
it is we couldn't fully express our gratitude but we could also say we're glad you listened this far please like follow and Share or SUBSCRIBE wherever we like we said before what will stop saying this after a while we got banned from Instagram so check out our layers Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 45:28
Players layers is that not a thing? We didn't Oh, ball.
Chris Siracuse 45:32
Oh, ballers Yeah. No, I mean, but like I like I said in one of the episodes I think it gives us a little bit of street cred.
Martin O'Toole 45:40
Does that make us ballers? Um, no,
Chris Siracuse 45:44
we'll be ballers ballers if we make money. Ah, yeah. So I would say we're, we're kind of was it player than a plate? Well, I mean, they're different connotations. But a player generally speaking is like you can play the game you know, the dating game. Okay, neither of those things. No, we're not we're not players or ballers that have no way to get our message out. So if you could help us out with that, we would have the app pick up Yeah, that would be epic. We would appreciate if you if you followed the show on Spotify.
