SUMMARY KEYWORDS
feel, ghosts, happened, experience, rosa, house, good, bed, window ledge, farmhouse, story, dismissive, dream, realised, consciousness, def con, energy, stroking, chris, spare bedroom
SPEAKERS
Chris Siracuse, Martin O'Toole
Martin O'Toole 00:08
Hi, Chris. Hello, Martin. How are you?
Chris Siracuse 00:15
Like you expect my answer to change? Well, we are you monitoring my progress? I am my mental health.
Martin O'Toole 00:22
I'm making notes.
Chris Siracuse 00:23
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Martin O'Toole 00:25
How is your mental health?
Chris Siracuse 00:26
It's pretty good. Good. Yeah, I was thinking and actually, I wanted to talk to you about this. This is probably a good time to talk about it on the,
Martin O'Toole 00:32
you know, we're recording, right? Yeah, I
Chris Siracuse 00:33
do. Okay, I was thinking we could change the description from suicidal to depressed. Okay. Yeah. And I was also thinking as we move through this, yeah. Like, am I always gonna be depressed? Probably not. Well, I got moved out of suicidal. Well,
Martin O'Toole 00:47
I was gonna say, let's take a step back. Because not, perhaps not everyone listening knows that we've labelled you a suicidal producer in the description.
Chris Siracuse 00:55
Which, to be fair, that was kind of my choice. I mean, you wrote it initially, but then we had to press in there, and I was gonna wish to change it because you were suicidal once? Yeah, it was. So I guess what I'm saying is that I am good. No longer suicidal. Nice.
Martin O'Toole 01:09
So it's kind of like that. The DEF CON, nuclear rating change? Yeah, exactly. A welfare rating change. Yeah. I always get this mixed up. You know, DEF CON is DEF CON one to five, isn't it? I believe so. Will you because this is an American thing. I think it's an American. So it's DEF CON one. Like the whatever, really average one or is that like Yeah,
Chris Siracuse 01:31
I'm pretty sure the DEF CON one is yeah, that's the baseline and DEF CON five then DEF CON four and five. That's when shits going down. And so impending nuclear was
Martin O'Toole 01:42
the end of the world. Yeah, as REM would think. So. Okay, so so your DEF CON 322.
Chris Siracuse 01:52
I also get them confused, too. But let's just go in the middle because I'm filling in the middle
Martin O'Toole 01:56
out. I'll tell you that. I'd say that.
Chris Siracuse 01:58
It was good.
Martin O'Toole 01:58
Good. Good for you, bro. Looking. You're only depressed,
Chris Siracuse 02:07
mildly depressed. Now. I wouldn't even say clinically depressed. I don't really know what the difference is good.
Martin O'Toole 02:12
I think you have to be told by so called professional. Depressed. Right. Right.
Chris Siracuse 02:18
And you don't have cancer?
Martin O'Toole 02:21
No, I don't. That's great. No, I don't. Yeah, obviously, nobody has a clue about about any of that. But that's something you feel comfortable talking about? Yeah, more than happy to talk about it. anybody listening to the podcast might have noticed that my voice has been a little bit sort of gravelly in and I'm a bit Wheezy. And I've essentially been struggling with a really quite debilitating lung condition for the last 18 months. And it's getting pretty bad and and to get me down as well, which is pretty hard to do these days. So I've been having lots of tests and found out today I don't have cancer.
Chris Siracuse 03:02
And you you've kind of scared me too, because I walked up as you were you and Jules were pulling up. And you looked at me dead in the eyes with all the seriousness that you could muster. And you said, Chris, I have some bad news. And he said I don't have cancer, so we can't talk about it on the
Martin O'Toole 03:24
IVIG crap because it would have been absolutely brilliant if I was actually dying, happy. However, we're just gonna have to carry on with media mediocre chatter. Oh, hey, that's fine. But technically, I am dying and you're dying and everybody around us is dying. So I suppose we can always fall back on that one. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm not dying of cancer. You feeling a little bit better and presumably as a result of this ongoing, these, these shenanigans, these podcasting shenanigans?
Chris Siracuse 04:00
Yeah, let's get in in some way. Yes.
Martin O'Toole 04:03
Good. Well, and I'm sure other things so well, that says I was I was wondering what we should what we should talk about in this week's chinwag. And because as most people know, by now we're we're broadcasting from from Bali, in Indonesia, other side of the world. And so the things that we're exposed to here as opposed to people in the West and in Central Europe and America, mania and Inglaterra are completely different, aren't they? For for example, Christmas isn't really a big deal here. Not that I've ever noticed anyway. And likewise, Halloween isn't but of course Halloween is around the corner for for any listeners in the west.
Chris Siracuse 04:56
It is Happy Halloween for anyone. West Turn listeners Happy
Martin O'Toole 05:00
Halloween. I see what you did the Happy Halloween was I do? Well, because it's called How to die happy, isn't it?
Chris Siracuse 05:07
Oh. All right. Yeah. You know, it's, it feels like a lot of days in Bali are similar to Halloween and how well in the sense that you know how how the Balinese are with spirits and how there's this constant dance that they're doing with the dark spirits. The Light Spirits, I guess you could say. So I feel like it is a good time to talk about some ghost stories when Yeah, I like that idea. I like that idea, too. So we're kind of you know, we're melding both the West and the East right now,
Martin O'Toole 05:43
I reckon. And also, well, I suppose we're doffing our cap to to the Halloween. Folks, wherever you are, whoever is celebrating Halloween in the next few days. On the other side of the world, I've got a great, great sound for you for this little chat then do Yeah, well, if we're going to tell ghost stories, yeah, I we need to be around a campfire. Okay, sure. But we're in my spare bedroom. We are we are so I thought to add a little bit of ambiance we could, we could maybe transport ourselves from my spare bedroom. Perhaps all of our listeners could do this at the same time. So forget momentarily that Chris and I are sitting around in our pants in my spare bedroom.
Chris Siracuse 06:32
Why? In pants? Well, you I forget that. Forget the image of both of us here with pants on just saying we do have pants on in the spare bedroom. Okay, okay, take us there.
Martin O'Toole 06:46
321 Bye, bye. Fireplace where? By the campfire out in the forest. Beautiful. Have you got any ghost stories?
Chris Siracuse 06:58
I have a story. I think you would think you would call it a night terror story. But I would say there's a ghostly element to it.
Martin O'Toole 07:09
Do you want to do you want to kick off with a little night terror story? I do. Go tell tell me. Tell us all about it.
Chris Siracuse 07:15
Now you're such a good storyteller. I feel like it's just nice to better than following you with the story though. I guess I'll just kick off with the story. And then you can go and you're like the main act. On the opener, the open and the opener.
Martin O'Toole 07:30
It's nice for me to kick back for a moment and listen to you. Yeah, with like,
Chris Siracuse 07:35
that's good. And it's fun. Yeah, feel warm and feel like I'm in the Sierra Nevadas
Martin O'Toole 07:40
to do on some marshmallows. No. And you can't have any more now I'm on a detox now.
Chris Siracuse 07:46
I think I'm gonna be like Annika stuff. Yeah, no, that's good. I think I'm gonna be on a. What would they call that? Like a sympathy detox with you? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, thanks, man. Well, if anybody doesn't know what a night terror is, it is truly terrifying.
Martin O'Toole 08:03
I know well, on terrorists,
Chris Siracuse 08:04
they're fucked up, aren't they? Yeah, I've had a few. They're really fucked up there. I don't have a specific story. I mean, I guess my story would be the same as most people have had one of these experiences before.
Martin O'Toole 08:14
Yeah, it's still worth sharing No, and still worth discussing the concept of it.
Chris Siracuse 08:17
Okay. Yeah. So here we go. So I was probably the first time it's happened to me multiple times. The first time it happened to me, I was probably in my mid 20s. And I was living in Monterey at the time, Monterey, California. Monterey can be a little bit foggy and spooky, and it's got a little got something going on there. For sure. So I don't remember exactly what's going on in that time in my life, but obviously, some shit was going on. And I woke up in the middle of the night ever to 3am and I can't move. I'm completely paralysed. And at the same time, I feel like I'm suffocating. I feel like I can't take a deep breath in. I look around the room and I feel completely conscious. Except for the fact that I can't move. So from my eyes, my eyes seem to be open. I look around the room and I see this dark figure, human in shape, human ish and shape in the doorway. And it moves toward me, hops onto my chest, and is like, suffocating me somehow.
Martin O'Toole 09:25
As in suffering, it's suffocating you
Chris Siracuse 09:27
not strangling me but sitting on top of my chest standing on top of my chest pushing down. Okay, so that feeling of being paralysed was accompanied by this feeling of not being able to fucking breathe and feeling like this dark entity is squishing the life out of me. Yeah. And I at that point, I realised I wasn't fully awake. So I fully wake up, gasping for air and fucking terrified because I had no idea was going on. It was the first time that I experienced something like that. It was sweating bullets. I was just Like what the fuck was that? Huh? So that is my ghost dish story. Now I'm sure science has some explanation for that. I read a little bit about it. I think it's some dark entity doing some fucked up shit trying to knows.
Martin O'Toole 10:15
Well, I agree with you. But yeah, you're right. Science does have an explanation for it because that they call them night terrors and label them night terrors. And they say it's just a state of a dream state.
Chris Siracuse 10:27
Right. So your body's kind of stuck in between, right? It's in that REM state, but then,
Martin O'Toole 10:32
allegedly, so But then, of course, on the flip side of that you had a, you were lucid dreaming, because you, you realised that you were asleep. Right? Yeah. And then, and then were able to wake yourself up,
Chris Siracuse 10:47
which is one of the few times that's happened before too. I've wanted to lucid dream, but I haven't been able to get there. Except for that time.
Martin O'Toole 10:54
I I do quite a lot of lucid dreaming these days. And it's quite a wonderful thing to be able to do because you can wake up inside your dream. going slightly off peace for a moment. One time, I had a dream inside the dream. You follow me? You know that movie Inception
Chris Siracuse 11:14
inception.
Martin O'Toole 11:16
Right? This actually happened to me. No, it wasn't as cool as the movie. And I couldn't even tell you what the dream was. But I so I woke in the dream. And then realised that I was still was asleep. So I had to then wake up again, to get out of Yeah, right. But again, I could do it. It wasn't frightening because i the whole point of being able to lucid dream is that you can control your dreams. So whenever you find yourself. And it's often in situations like this actually where something's terrorising you some mad mad stuffs happening, or you're doing or saying or thinking some stuff that you would never ordinarily do, in in this in this realm consciously, you wouldn't be that unpleasant and nor would any of these people around you. And then suddenly, you can lucidly realise that you're stuck in this situation and go hang on a minute. I'm being terrorised here. And then that's it. Wake up. Oh, flip the script in the dream, which is even better. You can stay on with a standard dream. Exactly. Cool. I had one of those as well, once. Well, I used to have them all the time. And I I one time in particular, I I was pinned down by a shadowy figure while I was pinned down. couldn't feel all the same sleep paralysis because that's something else they label it as isn't it? Although that feeling, but I was out of my body. So then I could see I was at the other side of the bedroom and I could see myself in bed pin down with this. I'm going to say Incubus entity shadow a entity on top of me and it had my mouth open. He was trying to climb into my mouth. So then I had to this was a lucid dream. I had to snap back into my body and inject it. Wow, right now some people would be thinking,
Chris Siracuse 13:15
Well, what do you guys smoke?
Martin O'Toole 13:18
You guys back in that PCP.
Chris Siracuse 13:21
We can assure you that we are 100%. sober, totally sober, completely, like more sober than I feel comfortable being actually Yeah, well,
Martin O'Toole 13:29
hey, I'm coming up to my ninth of February will be my fourth anniversary really clean and sober.
Chris Siracuse 13:34
That's my dad's birthday.
Martin O'Toole 13:35
We shouldn't call that my dad's birthday on. Well, Happy Happy Birthday Happy for years have seen Thanks, man. But it's February. So we got a while to go. Wow, for a long time. So I had I had that experience and many others. When you start talking about ghosts to people, you either get you either get shear fascination. I think I don't know what you think. Oh, you get people nodding knowingly. Yep, yep. Yep. All of that. And it's so nice to hear somebody else saying it out loud. Or you get utterly, which has always baffled me the most utterly dismissive responses. Not possible. Impossible. You're making it all up? Or it didn't happen. Or you must have misunderstood what you saw.
Chris Siracuse 14:26
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I've heard actually, I had a conversation with my friend a few days ago. And I think that the dismissiveness came from the label of ghost because I think that most people will be on board talking about spirits starting out energy however they want to classify it. Yeah, but this idea that it goes at least and we kind of came to this definition together. I was like, well, so you're dismissive about it but why exactly. So what do you mean when you say a ghost and I and I don't know if this is what technical definition with ghosts is but what we came to was that a ghost police is we under standard in the western world is when the Spirit doesn't fully transition, and it just caught and whatever place that it was in when it was part of the physical body. That sounds about right to you. Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 15:14
I would, I would say so. I'd say that's a fair, fair observation of what most people were thinking ghost is
Chris Siracuse 15:21
one I think maybe that's why they're dismissive because they don't want to they don't want to believe in if they do, even if they're religious, right, or they're, quote unquote, spiritual and they believe in energy, they believe in a soul. The idea of that energy being stuck. Nobody wants to that's a terrible idea. Isn't that
Martin O'Toole 15:37
you don't want to get your head around that this scary? Well, I so I've, through my life had quite a few experiences. Now, I would say, an unnatural amount of experiences.
Chris Siracuse 15:51
Yeah. Sounds alright.
Martin O'Toole 15:55
So lots of interactions. Excuse me on and off with ghosts. With with ghosts? Yeah.
Chris Siracuse 16:01
Would you base off of the definition that we just we came to which I don't know if that's accurate or not? Would you say that yet ghosts in that sense?
Martin O'Toole 16:11
Well, it's interesting, you should ask because I was just just kind of going through my memory banks of the experience, I've had to ask myself whether or not they were all whether or not it was evident that they were all energy leftover energy from people who were here prior? And I would say most of them were but then I do also wonder whether or not some of the experiences I've had have been with entities if you like, that aren't necessarily ghosts. And and a lot of people believe actually that Spectres let's use the word Spectres. That's a good word
Chris Siracuse 16:56
Spectre.
Martin O'Toole 16:57
Spectres can also be interdimensional entities or flashes of something. And of course, I'm saying interdimensional. Now everyone's going well, now what you're talking about? Just just try to bear with me on this one. But if we can, we can, we can all agree that actually we can only see what is it something like 1%, the human eye can see 1% of the entire light spectrum, is that right? And likewise, with the audible spectrum, there's so there are lots of things that we know, or our frequency or a type of light that we know is possible. But we now also know scientifically that we can neither here nor see it. That Fair enough. I'm not sure if it's 1%. So don't quote me on that. But I know it's a tiny, tiny. I know, it's a small percentage. We probably
Chris Siracuse 17:52
even know I don't even know what the percentage is one of those things like you don't know,
Martin O'Toole 17:55
how big is it? Yeah, exactly. What you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And we could get lost in that rabbit hole. We could. But keep going. But I know that well, you and I know that we that we don't know what we don't know. And a fair few people outside of that also know the same thing. So the Okay, last done that Rabil pull back. Oh, back step away from the what we don't know how. The point being that we have got into this strange mindset. I think societally that has has, essentially questioning the validity of anything that we can't see. Or hear or a court. Well, anything that we can't sense with the five senses. And I, I do wonder if we are being ludicrously dismissive, dismissive in that sort of with that sort of attitude? Because I'm not the only person who's seen ghosts, obviously, lots and lots and lots of people have in fact, people have been seeing ghosts for as long as stories have been told, right? I reckon. So I figured I'd tell you a story. I'll tell you. I've got loads of these stories. Certainly not enough rich and I've got too many for chinwag. So I'll tell you this ghost story. You're gonna tell us the best one, I hope well, yeah, this is a really good one. I've got I have got some doozies. But, but this is a this is a good one that will go on to provide perhaps some proof in inverted commas. As you know, I've got Yeah, I'll tell this one. Maybe I'll do another one as well. So when I was a little boy, I lived in my my family and I lived in a little farmhouse in the Yorkshire countryside. It was called corner farm house. It was this white old farmhouse and it was on the corner of it, it was on a crossroads. Now we're not going to get lost. into the whole occult symbolism of crossroads, but there is one Google it so this house was a very very old stone farmhouse and been been around for hundreds of years. And it was like an L shape you know, so you had the front that you know, the main house was on the road side. And then this L shaped piece came out the back of it, obviously connected. And we always used to feel my little brother and I, we'd be running up and down the stairs. And we have an idea that something was watching us from this window. Now I was six and he was four so I can't tell you what what we said about it. I can't remember but we always felt like this thing was on this this window ledge watching us. So we would hold each other's hands run up the stairs, run into this into this this annex at the end of this this farmhouse hold the door open Run in grab the toys and run out again because we were so scared of something in this room as well. So we had the thing on the window ledge that was looking at us and we had this this thing in this this extension, the stable sort of extension, which had wooden floorboards and wooden beams. It was a pretty creepy room and expose bracket wasn't very well decorated. So we'd get our toys and we'd pull them out onto the landing. But we'd have to arrange our toys facing this window ledge because something was watching us on this window ledge. And it wasn't a nice thing. It was a gnarly thing. Super creepy. Super creepy.
Chris Siracuse 21:39
Did you seal it see it or do you just feel it?
Martin O'Toole 21:42
We felt it but I think he's safe to say we both felt it's gnarliness as well you know it was like I don't know. I always got the sense it was sort of like curled up like a little nasty little gargoyle thing window ledge watching these two little kids playing so fast forward to fast forward to my older brother's 21st birthday I think so we're a good few years on and he and my little brother and I are all sitting in a room and we're talking about art remember that place yeah kind of farmhouse scary house that so I start I start telling him about about this dream that I used to have no go back P tells a story about how this is my older brother how he's sitting in the the end of that scary room at night with a CB radio you know a CB radio is like a long wave thing. Because back in those days there was no internet so so they would like kids his age teenagers would sit on the on the radio, you know, breaker breaker trying to reach out to truck drivers in front stunts and random stuff. Entertainment, the internet before the internet Yeah, big time. So he's sitting in the dark because he wasn't allowed to have the lights on on the radio. And there's just there's nothing going on. Everybody else is is asleep. And suddenly the end door and the door into the house flies open and his footsteps start walking towards him on the would like to serve from the house right towards him into the room he's in and stopped right next to him by the window. And he's literally be sitting there terrified. He's holding the CB radio in silence. And they turned on their heel and the footsteps walked out again. door opened off the pot. So he shoots into the house thinking how there was that and my bedroom door and my little brother's bedroom door are wide open. And we're both speaking absolute gibberish in our sleep in stereo.
Chris Siracuse 24:07
So Pete just said so he's on Peters on the CB radio. Yeah, sure. The shortwave radio. Let's walk up. Stop, Turn around. He's scared shitless Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 24:22
goes as follows them as you do in any good horror movie.
Chris Siracuse 24:25
Here's his two brothers. Asleep talking in my
Martin O'Toole 24:29
lap. Speaking in tongues in stereo in two separate bedrooms. And here's the other thing. When when he went when he before he started his little CB radio session, he closed our bedroom doors. We could not leave the doors. With the doors closed in the house. We were we were pretty scared. So they had to go through this rigmarole in here. My mom and dad had to go through the rigmarole they had to leave us to get to sleep and then close the doors. It's a very cold house. So he closed them and you knew that we're close. So he's standing on the London. And both doors are wide open, and we're speaking in tongues. So he tells us a story. And I just went, like, pale. And he said, Wow, I said, I used to have this recurring dream all the time when we lived in that farmhouse, of a man made of light, almost like he was on fire. And he would just pace up and down that room.
Chris Siracuse 25:28
That's so creepy. That's so creepy.
Martin O'Toole 25:32
Oh, you think that's creepy? My little brother goes even more why? And says, so did I.
Chris Siracuse 25:41
And this is years later, years later, and you guys are both and you're 30 or you're all three.
Martin O'Toole 25:46
PHP was 20. So I was in my late teens. So so then we got talking with my dad and my mom. And it turns out there was a figure large finger that used to appear at the end of everybody's bed all the time. And I remembered this I remember actually remember, you know, when you you have your eyes closed, but you feel a shadow come over your eyelids. Yeah, that used to happen all the time. I used to have to pretend to be asleep until this thing would go away. My mum would hear a baby crying quite a lot, children playing and so freaky deaky so then, some archaeologists came along and started doing a dig in the field next door because it was an old Saxon mound which apparently had a Saxon castle. This is like really old English civilization in inverted commas, and they found a Saxon burial ground under the perimeter of our house. So there was that there were more strange things that happened there but we we eventually moved out not long after this huge fly infestation we had where half of the house was covered in black flight the what the White House was black outside with flies like the like that Amityville moving strange stuff. Anyway, we left fast forward now to 30 something and I'm driving past there with my second ex wife. And
Chris Siracuse 27:18
you have two ex wives
Martin O'Toole 27:23
not for this chinwag we got time to come back to that one. But not to, to go to go see my marriage past. And so. So I was driving past you know, we we lived in Leeds in the United Kingdom, because we we'd come back to see my parents for Christmas maybe. So you know, driving around the countryside now and I suddenly stop and go, Whoa, this is my old house. So we're sitting right on the crossroads. We're looking right at the house. And I'm saying to her, that was my bedroom. This you know, that was James's bedroom. This used to happen that used to happen. This guy just knocks on the door knocks on the window. He's walking a dog. And I was like, Hey, can I help? You said well, I was gonna ask you the same thing. You This is my house. Is everything. Okay? I said, Yeah, this is gonna sound weird, but 30 years ago, yes. 3630 years ago, I used to live here. And he said no way. I said yes. Would you like to come in? Yes. And now
Chris Siracuse 28:35
that a fiery figures the walking up and down the hall.
Martin O'Toole 28:39
Any babies crying in the kitchen lies by sloth Omar flies. Thanks. So he invites us in. And I said to her because I just told her the story, you know, and I said, this would be quite interesting. And I always wanted to go back to this house. I think I'd always wanted to prove that I wasn't that this wasn't some weird childhood fantasy that I just suddenly, you know, somehow told myself. So we're in the house, we meet the wife, his wife, and she makes us a cup of cup of coffee or whatever. And we start walking around and then they give us a full tour of the house. It was so strange to see all of these rooms. First thing of course, all the rooms were significantly smaller than they were in my head. But then of course, last time I was there, I was six. So I was like half the size. Right? So that was really that was kind of a strange thing that the whole scale shifts to get my head around. And they took me into the scary scary room with the working man. But they'd carpeted it and they painted it and put plaster on the walls and stuff. So it's actually quite cosy. didn't feel anything at all. Nothing particularly suspect. So we're standing on the landing. And she says to him, ask him this is your your wife at the time? No, his wife. Oh, he
Chris Siracuse 29:54
says to him, his wife. The guy's wife says to
Martin O'Toole 29:58
him so yeah, I'm not In a very good job storytelling. So there are there are those two with our cups, and there are those two with a cup than that. So we're all facing one another. And she just nudges her husband and says, Ask him. And he said, No, no, not no. Gone ask him. And he just sort of, he looks really embarrassed. And I said, I think I know what you're going to ask me. And he said, I don't think you do. So. Is this place haunted? And he went?
Chris Siracuse 30:26
Yeah, what he was gonna ask. Yeah, yeah.
Martin O'Toole 30:29
Yes, exactly. That's exactly. Did you ever have anything happen while you were here? Did we have anything happen? So I've read off the list, bla, bla, bla, people at the end of the bed flies, walking game, babies, yada, yada. And they're both going No way. Same thing. The guy at the end of the bed, baby crying in particular, they had he was always in the winter time. So it wasn't all one throughout the year, they'd be sitting downstairs in the kitchen, all original stone floor. Stone flags, by the way all downstairs like super old English cottage while farmhouse. And they'd be sitting in this in the kitchen and they'd hear two kids tutoring. To know what tutoring means. Not really, that's an English thing. Isn't it? Tutoring? Teach.
Chris Siracuse 31:21
Oh, why that's so creepy.
Martin O'Toole 31:28
So there are these two little voices twittering and they look down the corridor. And then suddenly these two little kids pop the head around the corner. Literally hands, you know, fingers fingers around the edge is like hey, and then
Chris Siracuse 31:46
I wish they could see your face right now.
Martin O'Toole 31:51
And then they ran off and they could hear these little footsteps as these kids were running around. And obviously the first time it happened, it terrified the shit out of them. But then they sort of got used to it became this bizarre, like interaction and it was a conscious interaction this is and this is the funny thing about coming back to the conversation we were having at Star I've had a number of other interactions if you like with things that were quite clearly was one time there's actually an ex girlfriends turned out to be her auntie was talking to me. And maybe I'll tell you quickly tell you the story as well. And then we can we can round up. So we're in Goa in in bed goers in Goa India, India. embeddedness beach shot, and we're like both half asleep and I'm stroking this ex girlfriend's forehead, you know, like this sort of like, you know, just like, lightly, like stroking her hair off her forehead sort of thing. Very good. Thanks. And in my mind's eye, this this older Italian woman pops into my head. And she says she used to love it when I did that. For anybody who can't see Chris's face right now is looking love it freaked out. So So I say to this woman, without obviously speaking didn't have them. I say, oh, yeah, yeah, she doesn't really like this. Who are you? She says, My name's Rosa. Said, nice to meet you, Rosa. Nice to meet you too. And then she disappears. Anyway, I sort of stopped stroking the girlfriend's head at this time, and she said, Why don't stop why you stopping? I said, this is gonna sound a little bit weird
Chris Siracuse 33:54
but,
Martin O'Toole 33:55
right, so I said, this woman is just popped into my head. And she just said, and she smiled and she had a really lovely face. And she smiled. You said? She used to love it when I did that. And this girl jumps out of bed because she can't fucking
Chris Siracuse 34:08
rouse I was she Oh my god.
Martin O'Toole 34:11
Yes, she was a bit of a foul mouthed creature. This this particular. Yeah. And so I'm like, fucking were on my mother's ashes.
Chris Siracuse 34:20
She jumps up and says she
Martin O'Toole 34:22
wasn't called Rosa. Was she? Right? And I say yeah, she was. You
Chris Siracuse 34:27
said it just that common? Well, yeah. Because Rosa to
Martin O'Toole 34:31
that. I wasn't kind of a big deal to me. But it was a big deal to her. So yeah, she's beside herself. She's a she now she is now. No, no, she's gone. She's gone. Anyway, so she's she gets back into bed calms down. So who's Rosa? She seemed lovely. And so she tells me this story and she says so. So the girl was Italian and her parents had moved from the countryside near Rome, when she was a child when her and her brothers were children and Uh, they've moved to England and they started a restaurant business. This is your girlfriend at the time, the girlfriend at the time, and they worked super hard, lovely, lovely people, these, this couple were and they worked to their fingers to the bone in this Italian restaurant but a girlfriend's parents. Yeah. So and they were working so hard trying to build this this restaurant that they had to send her back to Italy for a while to hang out with Auntie Rosa. Right. And she was so beside herself with not being around family, as you would naturally expect that Auntie Rosa would stroke ahead. Exactly the same way. I was stroking it. Whoa,
Chris Siracuse 35:43
whoa, what happened, Rosa.
Martin O'Toole 35:45
She died. By I don't know how I can't remember. But yeah, she was obviously she was obviously dead. So that's so that plays into the beginning of the conversation, doesn't it? Because you're on the one hand, you have these strange entities doing something that may or may not have been a previous practice while they were alive. Perhaps standing at the end of the bed is just a shadow of an energy shadow of something that was once a lie that used to walk around the bedroom, you don't know, stuff on top of you, trying to claim trying to terrorise you and claim into I don't think so I think that's something else personally. And then on the flip side, you've got Rosa, who's obviously passed on, but as popped into my head, communicate with me, and then zipped off again. And then you've got these children who are playfully, quite clearly not trained to frighten the people in this house that we used to live in. So
Chris Siracuse 36:49
now I like that break down. Because you've explored different possibilities. You've maybe expanded the definition of ghosts, it doesn't really matter what you call it, clear it clearly there is some energy present. Yeah. And it's operating at frequencies that we sometimes can see and sometimes can't maybe not see with their eyes, but we can sense it. Yep. And I mean, seems pretty obvious to me that, that energy, sometimes there's residual, or sometimes it does get stuck. And some times it comes back. Or sometimes it comes from wherever it came from in the in the case of the maybe the internet dimensional beans. So yeah, man who damn
Martin O'Toole 37:33
Okay. All right. Got loads more of those? No,
Chris Siracuse 37:37
that's great. I love the story of Rosa. I mean, but basically all this to get to the question of
Martin O'Toole 37:44
life after death. Is the life after death hunted? Fuck
Chris Siracuse 37:48
yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that even though even that question is kind of silly. And the deeper I get into thinking about these different ideas, around reincarnation around, you know, the transition of energy from one form to the other, it's like, it just seems so obvious. Now, whether or not you know exactly how that energy is transitioning, and in what form it takes after this, this current human form. That's a whole other conversation, but I mean, it seems like a no brainer to me like yeah, of course, there's something else. Yeah, isn't just stop. I mean, but I guess that's where people get hung up. Because this physical body, this does stop. And then it decomposes and gets taken back into the ecosystem and it's, you know, re circulates into the the energy system in a different way. Yep. Or whatever we call our soul or spirit. That's that's the mysterious part, isn't it? Well,
Martin O'Toole 38:43
that's the big question, isn't it? And that of course, is is energy. I agree with you. I, I believe that energy is is infinite. And it just takes different shapes. The dogs are really messing with a campfire, nice.
Chris Siracuse 39:00
Little Solly, much steeper gambali
Martin O'Toole 39:03
much making noise again, then ruining the illusion of a campfire. You
Chris Siracuse 39:07
take a different form, you don't shut up.
Martin O'Toole 39:11
Once again, we must apologise for atty and muda appearing on the podcast without invitation
Chris Siracuse 39:18
without invitation. I mean, it wouldn't be fine if we could see them on video and I think people would be much more accepting of this. Cute they are one day, but all you do is just hear them barking.
Martin O'Toole 39:27
Yeah, sorry about that. But yeah, I totally agree. I think we I think energy is infinite. I don't believe that we are. I think that we are souls using a body using using the earth rover as I call it, to have this experience the earth school experience. Like that school idea. Yeah. And I think we need in Earth School in third density High School, we need a we need an earth rover that's called a human body, or perhaps even a dog's body or other bodies, as per our conversation a couple of weeks ago. So I completely believe that there is life after death. And I, I totally agree with you. I think it's, it feels a little bit silly to to argue otherwise. But the thing is, I had I had a girlfriend who was very rational, pragmatic thinker, and she had never had an experience. She'd never had any metaphysical experience whatsoever. She'd never sensed any energy in any way, shape or form. So for her such discussions and ideas, were anyway, absolutely ludicrous. She just she wouldn't she refuse to believe it. But at the same time, she she had no way of disproving my stories. Yeah, certainly, when you think about the last the story with the with the house that 30 years on to total strangers are also being haunted, are also having experiences. I don't know, these people have literally walked into their house for a cup of tea or a cup of coffee. So I think that's probably the thing I find more amusing is when people are so dismissive of ideas that don't fit the narrative. Yeah, with, with absolutely no experience or understanding or ability to, to argue against it. Yeah,
Chris Siracuse 41:37
well, I mean, it can be scary, to be scary to think those things. And it really gets to the core of this idea of consciousness. Now, if you, if you take the mainstream Western scientific perspective on consciousness, it originates in your brain, it is created, but if you if you open that up, and you start thinking and exploring different ideas of what consciousness is, then in my mind, it becomes clear that it does not originate in your brain, yet, that is not the source of consciousness that is actually being your brains like an antenna quiet, it is channelling this larger consciousness and greater consciousness. It's coming through you and your
Martin O'Toole 42:18
brain is a utility, and if a very effective, highly complex utility of the earth rover, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not the it's not the the epitome of your consciousness.
Chris Siracuse 42:32
But it makes sense. If you're looking at it from that perspective, from the perspective of Oh, it's just it's contained to you and your brain. And that's it because then it becomes easier to control and separate and isolate people and say and blame people for whatever it is that they have going on. It's like well, they're just fucked up. You know, they're schizophrenic Yep, they're they're obsessive compulsive they're bipolar. They're whatever it is that they are wouldn't really the to me when I when I think of schizophrenia, for instance, that is an indication of what's going on in that society, an indication of what's going on in that world because those people are very hypersensitive to whatever is going on in the shared consciousness. Yep. But if we agree, a Western perspective, and you know, the the medical ally, I guess you would call it what would you call it and mental health?
Martin O'Toole 43:18
Well, I suppose you just call it modern day psychology? Yeah, I guess
Chris Siracuse 43:20
you would just call it like, yeah, modern day psychology. But that it's, it challenges the whole belief system that underpins that, and all the science but then if
Martin O'Toole 43:31
you look at well, you look at Carl Jung, CG Jung, for example. He was he was obviously a Renowned psychiatrist, but, but he had, he actually had a near death experience. And wrote many essays about the ethereal and about the concept of life after death, and actually took a wound up talking, some adopting some very Eastern principles and philosophies into his work. But I don't know I don't know enough about Carl Jung to know whether whether that all happened primarily after his near death experience. I know he he credited the near death experience to the to a new renaissance of some of his most brilliant works. After that, excuse me. So I don't know it's it's an interesting space where right now and I think I might have said something a few weeks ago about this, I feel in my feeling my gut that we're on the we're on the edge of some major discoveries. Yes. Where, where one or two scientists are going to be able to bridge that gap between spirituality and science and actually show people legitimate evidence that people are going to have to, they will have to accept no, no longer will they will this cognitive day dissonance continue to occur. Now, as you know, Chris, I respect everyone's truth. So and so I've got no problem with anybody who doesn't believe in, in life after death, or in or in energy, or even, even though I could point them to a pile of actual science that shows them, electromagnetic scans, and so on and so forth. And of course, talk to them talk to several Qigong, tai chi, and Eastern masters who would change their minds in minutes. But I do think it's, I do feel like it's, it's time now for, for us all to try. Just to take a step back, collectively, and try to open our minds one more time, even to the things that we we've said, we've told ourselves aren't true don't exist. Our bullshit for the last 2030 4050 years, 60 years of our lives, perhaps just have another girl collectively and say, Wow, okay, well, what are what how do I feel about these days?
Chris Siracuse 46:14
I mean, given what's happened in the past, let's just say 10 years. I've anything's possible. Right? So I think it is a wonderful thing to ask people to open their minds. We will also open our minds. Yeah, always. So you can leave us a voice message. You got some ghost story, some counter, please do Dory, please do now. But I think that I think that's a great thing for us all to remember to do. But for the sake of having a maybe a festive Halloween even more, because it could can make for some fun.
Martin O'Toole 46:48
For sure. But, but then a word of caution. Don't mess around with Ouija boards, please. Yeah, you're thinking sweetie words. Yeah, we're not getting with us for another conversation, but not a good idea to be for people to play with us things like that. Well, I
Chris Siracuse 47:02
think that's the thing is when you start opening this up, there is the potential for misuse. Let's say of course there is
Martin O'Toole 47:09
as as with with any such metaphysical practice or play in
Chris Siracuse 47:15
or with anything else, too. I mean, yeah, yeah. Is this
Martin O'Toole 47:19
this is not these are not things that people are to meddle with. without really understanding a great deal more about about what's going on. And when I say in the world, I don't mean on this plane, so
Chris Siracuse 47:39
super spooky. Well, Happy Halloween, everyone. Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 47:42
Happy Halloween. And I hope you enjoyed. chinwag hold before we go. Yeah, what's up two things to forgotten one of them. But which is which is ironic because because the first thing I wanted to do was just pick up on I was listening to one of our earlier shows one of our chin Wags and I use the word golly Ark twice. I know. You you just let it happen.
Chris Siracuse 48:09
What cuz I thought I was like, Mars is smart, dude. He knows where it's maybe this is some other kind of arc that I don't know.
Martin O'Toole 48:17
I am seriously. Well, this is one of the reasons why I've been having some tests because Because Because, because my my brains been doing some pretty strange stuff. Like, quite clearly, I and you and the rest of our listeners know that there's no such thing as a goalie arc. They are oligarchs. Nevertheless, just in case anybody else like Chris decided, perhaps I shouldn't question it because he seems to be a relatively effective wordsmith. And perhaps I should just berate myself for not knowing what a goalie arc is. Yeah, rest assured. I just made that word up.
Chris Siracuse 48:51
That's kind of what I did. I was like, Wow,
Martin O'Toole 48:53
do you know what a spoonerism is?
Chris Siracuse 48:57
spoonerisms spooners have no doubt,
Martin O'Toole 48:59
man, I wish I knew there was a guy and I don't know if he was an English. He was English. I don't know if he was a politician or anyway was a dude and I think his name was Spooner. And I'm going to have to going to have to hit everyone up with more facts about this next time we speak but he had a condition, mental condition where he would accidentally mix up the letters of words. So for example, attea and muda he would say Mati And Gouda Martin and Chris
Chris Siracuse 49:34
carton and Miss exactly
Martin O'Toole 49:35
right. God, I
Chris Siracuse 49:37
never I always try to do that. And I can't but it'd be Miss actually. I'm Ross Yeah, Carlton, and Marissa actually surprised I was able to do that. Yeah, well, I have a gift. I
Martin O'Toole 49:45
do that I couldn't do it, which is why I was hoping you are going to filbur Usually I can't. So this chat would do this all the time. And it became a thing and it was called the spoonerism. Perhaps it's just an English thing. I'm doing this stuff. or injustice through lack of research however, I suspect the GALLIARD can oligarch was some weird spoon or a stick
Chris Siracuse 50:12
straighter spinner Ristic well I mean if you think about it all language is just made up so truth.
Martin O'Toole 50:19
Anyway so that's all I got to say about that. Well
Chris Siracuse 50:25
nice chinwag I guess we can call it done yeah, yeah. All right Happy Halloween everyone Happy Halloween what is there any like any kind of festivities? Well, we just had a full moon here.
Martin O'Toole 50:36
Thus we just get so happy to have full moon ceremony and we're gonna drink some cacao, cacao and burn some palo santo and that's got a bed early night
