SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ayahuasca, people, dmt, psychedelics, journey, medicine, beautiful, absolutely, remember, ayahuasca experience, talking, incredible, undress, experience, village, pretty, plant, perspective, body, point
SPEAKERS
Richard Stokoe, Martin O'Toole
Terence McKenna 00:07
I don't I've never seen it hit him quite as hard as it hit me that I was transformed in the moment from a Marxist sceptic scientists in order I just did. It was then and I will say it still is now. It is pure 100% magic. It's magic. It's not a drug. It's an event. It's not something that you do. It's something which happens to you. And people come out of it saying, what happened? What happened?
Martin O'Toole 00:42
What didn't happen?
Richard Stokoe 00:44
What a guy.
Martin O'Toole 00:45
I know. Right. Terence McKenna, talking about DMT.
Richard Stokoe 00:48
Why is he not celebrated more?
Martin O'Toole 00:51
You ask? It's a good question that I think I sense that the likes of Terence McKenna and Alan Watts are having a renascence I don't know if you've noticed on Spotify in the likes, but there are a lot of playlists coming up, coming out with them. Just seminars and lectures by the two.
Richard Stokoe 01:12
Yeah, I think generally over the last five years as well think five years is I've definitely noticed an uprising in this type of narrative. Definitely. And we've been in that uprising and we Richard What a beautiful uprising. It's been Martin.
Martin O'Toole 01:27
So welcome to How to die happy,
Richard Stokoe 01:30
very happy to be here.
Martin O'Toole 01:31
I'm very happy to have you here. So for the folks at home riches, I would say my brother from another mother. And we met through what we met when I first moved to Bali, didn't we? For Johnny Whitesell through Johnny whiter. Can you introduce this shout out Johnny whiteout Hello, white oak hope you well, and your family and your lovely new baby are relatively new baby. And shortly after meeting, we went on a an incredible experience didn't expect incredible journey together.
Richard Stokoe 02:09
I just think it was one of those situations where there was a beautiful bit of all the assets, synchronicity, serendipity, just all all sort of came together than that.
Martin O'Toole 02:20
It certainly did. And we're going to talk about that because it was together our first Ayahuasca journey. But I suppose we should take a step back because I was quite keen in this chinwag to talk about Ayahuasca but but also to talk about our our experience of it, but also to give people some information about Ayahuasca, I think in DMT. So because DMT stands for Dimethyltryptamine. And it's only two steps in synthetic terms from tryptophan, which is an amino acid that's in all organisms, right? So all organisms already contained two key enzymes that produce DMT, is included. And it's been remarked that the DMT, therefore is like a messenger molecule, which I love that expression. Because it connects all organisms. It's a common molecular language in that regard. And, of course, an incredible utility to explore human consciousness and our profound connection to nature. And one another. said it in one sentence, but actually, that's quite a, it's quite a profound gift.
Richard Stokoe 03:43
I think we touched on this previous that way, which I think we came to the conclusion. It's a backdoor key.
Martin O'Toole 03:49
Yeah, absolutely. It's a backdoor key into a higher state of consciousness. Yeah, yeah, I think I once said it was, I think I said if meditation is, is a key yoga, and yoga is a key. Ayahuasca is a laser cut, you know, one of those laser cuts whiskies and it's also a close relative to psilocybin, the compound found in so called Magic mushrooms. So DMT is in everything, or in many, many plants, rather, and many organisms. And in the year 2000, a chap called Rick Strassman, a psychiatrist wrote a book called DMT the spirit molecule because you and I think both watch the documentary, didn't we?
Richard Stokoe 04:36
Yeah, that I've heard of the book. Suppose I came around to it through Graham Hancock, and then start this beautiful rabbit hole of a journey through Robert Graham Hancock then on to Joe Rogan Joe Rogan Spirit Molecule DMT that did it and then To infinity and beyond.
Martin O'Toole 04:57
Well, Joe Rogan, for those of you don't know He narrated the documentary, which is called DMT, the spirit molecule. And so the book was made in written was published in 2000. The sub header for that is a doctor's revolutionary research into the biology of near death and mystical experiences. Important to point out, he's a doctor, and he's a psychiatrist. And then in 2010, they made the documentary that Joe Rogan narrated. Which was an epic piece of documentary filmmaking, certainly, from my perspective, and because when I decided I was going to do Ayahuasca with you and a few other people in an undisclosed North African country, I did an awful lot of research, and across the Internet is good and bad for that. And I'm sure I think you and I kept tooing and froing. Didn't we were talking about our apprehension.
Richard Stokoe 05:53
Yeah. Yeah, at the time, it was pretty scary actually. Well, because there is
Martin O'Toole 05:57
some pretty horrible or horrific pieces of content out there that paint plant medicine in a bad light. And of course, there are because there are, there are everywhere, right, yeah. And their intimate, intimate, there are infinite truths. But it's important for me to point out probably, as we talk talk about this, the thing about psychedelics, and where they're so commonly mis understood, is, most of the time when people tell the stories of a terrible trip, as people refer to it, more often than not, there are lots of mitigating factors aren't that totally, such as the alcohol? Yeah, absolutely. They've got alcohol in their system. They've got cocaine in their system, because of course, a lot of people are doing this in South and Central America, where cocaine is incredibly cheap and exceptional quality. Smoking
Richard Stokoe 06:58
smart enough, not giving it the respect, you know, you've got to you've got to fast you've got to cleanse you got to sort of prepare yourself mentally. And physically beforehand, right?
Martin O'Toole 07:06
Exactly. Get your body and your mind, right. So there's a long list of things that one should never do in advance of an Ayahuasca ceremony. And it is, it's eating meat, it's sugar, chilli, spice, oil, oil. What else? Fish all the good stuff, all the good stuff, coffee, can't do that. Drugs, and pharmaceuticals as well. That's an important thing, because all of these things are changing our physiology and what the plant does. What the Ayahuasca Medicine does is, is really reaches into the the nooks and crannies of physiology, doesn't it?
Richard Stokoe 07:44
interesting you say that? That's that's certainly said that I remember it kind of coursing through coursing through my veins and into into each cell. So just a bit of a flashback?
Martin O'Toole 07:55
Yeah, I do as well. And in many more things. But then, of course, there are many more things that I've forgotten. So I think what Rick Strassman did, and a number of other leading authorities, certainly in the research that I did in advance of my first Ayahuasca journey, they helped to bridge the gap between science and spirituality Strassman did a trial, didn't he? So it did a trial with a number of subjects, where people were provided with DMT. And then they in a clinical and safe clinical environment where they were then invited to recount what happened to them. And, you know, you've really got to read the book, or, and or watch the documentary to hear the stories, but they are nothing short of as Terence McKenna says, magical. And that's kind of what happened to us. So before we talk about what happened to us a couple of other things to point out about DMT. Well, it's also present in the human body. So it resides in our pineal gland. Also referred to as the third eye, it resides in our lungs. So when we're chanting or doing breath work, or meditation or yoga, we can we can create a semi transcendental experience or a full on transcendent transcendental experience, because we're releasing the DMT or activating a DMT in his right, totally, ultimately provides a mystical union
Richard Stokoe 09:36
get high on your own supply. As Wim Hoff would say
Martin O'Toole 09:41
Is that what he says?
Richard Stokoe 09:41
yeah that's his strapline. Yeah. making billions from
Martin O'Toole 09:47
like, is it vim or Wim? I'm never sure
Richard Stokoe 09:50
Vim, Wim, then we were off tomatoes tomatoes, but yeah, we were in half what a dude
Martin O'Toole 09:56
he's not wrong though is he because I think And of course we both did breathwork together possibly for the first time.
Richard Stokoe 10:04
Yeah. I think I've had some breathwork sessions that have been as powerful as plant medicine journeys. Yeah. 100%.
Martin O'Toole 10:12
Yeah. And quite often transcendental checklists in early body proves you can do it naturally as well. Yeah. And then there are there are a lot of people that argue that, that because you can do it naturally. Why would you use plant medicine? What do you think about that?
Richard Stokoe 10:31
I think it's a shortcut. Yeah, I think it's a, it's an intro into find finding sort of the essence of yourself. And I think you sort of go through, go through your life, you know, where you're living in your ego. And you get to a point where I think for me, sort of, I kind of had an awakening in my early 20s. But it scared the shit out me to be honest. So I suppressed it and thought about I'll do that when I'm older. So then it comes to it's 40 years old and you haven't all like it like crises, midlife crisis. What is this all about? You know, I'm floating on a bit of rock travelling through the universe at 70,000 miles and all people are bothered about fucking Kim Kardashian. It did it, it affected me. So I sort of went deep in within myself. And yeah, I think for me personally, it was like, we've we've talked about this before, but there's the 90s film Jumanji. It's like, the game is like, it makes a drum like a boom, boom, it's a game calling you to it. And I did, I just felt I felt like this, this urge, there was something in my essence calling me to it. And it just, you know, then you pick a thread. And then Joe Rogan Graham Hancock, and you got all these beautiful synchronistic moment. And then obviously meeting you and your brother. And we just had that that chat together. And we're just Oh, yeah, we're actually flying in going going to a retreat in two weeks time to do it. And I want that. Why are you welcome to join if
Martin O'Toole 12:02
I remember the look on your face. Yeah, it's just
Richard Stokoe 12:06
I think we've known each other for probably about four hours. Yeah.
Martin O'Toole 12:09
But it felt like we'd known each other for a long time didn't
Richard Stokoe 12:11
I think I think BT offers that we've had a good friend. And that obviously paired is I think he obviously knew we'd get on with come from the same background in northern English sort of village. So lots of common denominators, but But yeah, that journey one, just an amazing All right.
Martin O'Toole 12:29
Yeah. Well, let's talk about it. So we, we all arrived in this North African country. We met in a city first, didn't we? And then I think it'd be a night with night in the city day and night in the city.
Richard Stokoe 12:45
It's really difficult to describe it without giving it away. But
Martin O'Toole 12:48
we should probably not. Because it's it's not. psychedelics are not legal in that country. However, we eventually wound up at this incredible Hotel on in the in the mountains, Bond, Villa, Bond villain villa, wasn't it? And we sort of, I think there were four or five of us weren't even. And we all settled down to two days and nights of our Alaska, followed by Wachuma. So I asked her, as we've discussed is, is DMT but just to be specific, Ayahuasca tea is a brew, made of two ingredients. So it's made of the Ayahuasca vine bark, and the chatroom belief. The reason why it's made of two is because actually, the human body naturally rapidly breaks DMT down using an enzyme called What's it called? Mono monoamine monoamine oxidase, Mao called, however, because the Ayahuasca tea contains the chakra leaf, the check crooner leaf is a natural Mao enzyme inhibitor. Right. So of course, it switches off the body's ability to, to switch off the effects of DMT. Yeah. Which essentially means
Richard Stokoe 14:18
you realise is the inhibitor which is just pretty amazing when you think about it. Right,
Martin O'Toole 14:23
isn't it? And, and just as an aside, that back chemistry, that understanding of chemistry, obviously comes from the Amazon and has been around for 1000s of years. And when I went to the Amazon, which we'll talk about in a little while, I spoke to one of the most beautiful people on the planet, a chap called Piaget Pano, who is a Sharman from the Nokia Quinn tribe. And he tells the story of how many many many many years ago that one of the one of the shaman in the village one of the healers in the village was visited in a dream by a snake. And the snake led him into the jungle. And he followed the snake. And the snake curled itself around an Ayahuasca vine. And essentially an A voice came to his head. You need this and then curled itself around a check Runa Bush,
Richard Stokoe 15:20
wow, this she's got big goosebumps when he said that. Well,
Martin O'Toole 15:24
I mean, leave it. It's pretty epic, isn't it as well, amazing story. So he says, this guy comes out of the jungle with a handful of Ayahuasca vine, a handful that check check. Runa leaves a message from a snake in his dream and he makes Ayahuasca beautiful. How on earth would a very, very ancient and very primitive Brazilian tribe know to mix those two plants?
Richard Stokoe 15:52
Think it's amazing, where you've got different native tribes all around the world. And they've all follow the same rules, you know, the same beliefs. You know, it's basically this is like a portal. That's a death portal darling. Yeah. And it can actually, you know, everything's based around the constellation of Orion, you know, we had to Orion, then we go on to the Milky Way, on the Milky Way. That's where we sort of challenge our life that we've just had ready for where we go next. And as
Martin O'Toole 16:21
you say, you've got these indigenous tribes from all over the world, different islands same
Richard Stokoe 16:27
following the same story,
Martin O'Toole 16:28
doing the same things. With no internet quite a bit. Yeah, we're
Richard Stokoe 16:32
no connection with each other as well.
Martin O'Toole 16:33
No air travel, not even the ability to do big sailing trips. I don't think anyway, let's not get lost in that conversation too much. But the point being that the chemistry was there a long, long time ago. So where we're in this North African country, and we we were going to do James Bond Villa James Bond villa, and we were going to do Alaska, which is the tea I just explained. And following the following morning, we were going to do San Pedro or watch humour. Which is a cactus, isn't it? My favourite? Yeah, I think it's my favourite too, is it's an incredible kind of DMT experience and a completely different to Ayahuasca because I WASC her is known as the mother, the grandmother, and why Schumer is known as the grandfather. The idea being what happens from an experiential perspective with our Wesker is you get a I think it's safe to say we'll get a giant cuddle, right? Yeah. I personally was foetal for a lot of my first experience. Yeah. And you're getting just so much love and healing energy is impossible to put into words, but we'll talk about it on the flip side of a tumour is a very masculine plant. So you are re energised by this plant, and of course, you have very similar psychedelic experiences. So how was your first Ayahuasca experience?
Richard Stokoe 18:14
Where do you start? Honestly, I think for me, it was a lot of apprehension, because I was just everything about my mind was saying, do not do this, do not do this. But my intuition was just like, you know, lead leading me to this path. So I think I think there was five of us there. I think the other three guys, you know, the practice before,
Martin O'Toole 18:37
yes, all of them had quite
Richard Stokoe 18:39
quite evolved as well. Yeah. Because they were you out, you know, have some pretty deep, deep chats. And I was thinking, Whoa, I'm a little bit on my depth here.
Martin O'Toole 18:49
These guys are sort of Jedi. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Richard Stokoe 18:53
I slip up. So yeah, I think I think initially, you know, the good thing about it is you've got to take it seriously. And you got prepare, I can remember I fasted, prepare my mind, and we've meditated for weeks. Yeah, yeah. I don't think we ate the day before. Did we?
Martin O'Toole 19:12
no
Richard Stokoe 19:14
Like, like you said, that obviously prepares your body so that the medicine can just go into every nook and cranny of your body and do the work. So I think for me, I remember initially, I was thinking, Oh, nothing's happening. And then after 20 minutes, it's like, whoa, whoa, like you're on a roller coaster and you're going through a kaleidoscope of dimensions. And then I can remember coming straight through and I was met by this, like an entity that had six snakes coming out of her head and she just reached up to me got a fish bone. A whole fish. Well, it was a skeleton, and like, try to put it in my mouth, and I just freaked out. I was like, Walker can't handle this. Yeah. So then, you know, woke up and like grounded myself a little bit and then went back in. And I think just like you said, then after that it was just like this just journey of sort of looking at yourself and just realising, you know, it's alright. Just don't worry. Don't beat yourself up, you know, don't need too hard on yourself. Yeah, you know, he's sorry, he loved. I think that was the overriding factor is just love just everything's just based on love.
Martin O'Toole 20:26
Yeah, I had the same constant message. But it's important to mention that set and setting are so incredibly crucial to a safe and loving plant medicine experience, so many people out with of the fact that they are still drinking and doing drugs and not doing the data that they also don't do this in a in a in a ceremonial setting with an expert guide that people are, unfortunately, a little bit reckless at times. Likewise, there are some very unqualified people in South and Central America, and probably elsewhere in the world calling themselves shaman who go to people in to do one of, if not the most sacred healing ceremonies there is with little to no experience or qualifications. And these are the sort of situations that you see on the internet, these nightmare stories.
Richard Stokoe 21:29
Yeah, exactly. But I think I think with something like this, you've you've got to do your due diligence, you got to go in and work it out. And
Martin O'Toole 21:36
for sure. And we were very fortunate because our Shaman was an incredible human being. I felt
Richard Stokoe 21:42
so I felt I felt more than more than comfortable and safe and a slicer vitally important. Yeah. I kind of want to call them a cosmic cosmic him. Yeah, absolutely. He acted like one didn't
Martin O'Toole 21:53
really did. But he was. Well, the other chaps in the ceremony with us really held space for us very well. Yes. I think you and I were, it's safe to say pretty apprehensive. Noobs noobs terrified new definite noobs Yeah. And I think there's, there's an there is an element of doing too much research. And of course, the more time you spend on the internet, the more nightmarish stories you'll find. So
Richard Stokoe 22:18
burnout is good. I think in either apprehension, it makes you take it seriously. But I think you know, halfway through then you just your defences lower donor. And you just don't you open up to it. And I think that's, I think that was the message. The guys were saying just don't just open. Yes. surrender, surrender. Surrender to it. And as soon as you sort of do that, well, that's when she does her magic.
Martin O'Toole 22:43
Well, that's, it's interesting, because you said a few minutes ago, it's not working. Yeah. This is like a common thing with psychedelics. Everyone always says the same thing. Oh, it's not working. And then right at that moment is usually when it works, isn't it? I was I was my own experience. I was already very deep into the typical landscape that you see when you do psychedelic work. And that is the the the sacred geometry multicoloured. Absolutely stunning. You can't say three dimensional because it doesn't do it justice. It is multi dimensional all around you. You are immersed in
Richard Stokoe 23:23
high definition as well.
Martin O'Toole 23:24
It's 4k increased from 4k to another one. I don't know. Anyway, it's better than 4k. That's the point. And of course, all the while you've got your eyes closed, you're laying down in a sleeping bag or on a on a on a Rogan we were we were in front of a burning log fire which was epic. And we had some incredible music and isochronic tunes playing. Some of those songs had been sort of baked into others, those pieces of music been baked into my psyche.
Richard Stokoe 23:53
I was listening to one this morning. Nice. Which
Martin O'Toole 23:55
one Devi Prayer that's actually skipping ahead like a comeback to that six months on after we'd done it to be done on our first journey. I was sitting in a yoga class in Peckham, and it came and we're doing this shavasana and she just play the Devi prayer. Vibrate back. Double that connection that we have with music right currently, just how we can just put you right back in that place. Yeah, sadly didn't put me right back in that place is I needed some DMT to assist. But yeah, so I was already lost in the music and I but I was sort of riding this edgy, I'd say uncomfortable wave in this in this geometry. And essentially I was stuck in a loop. And I told myself, the medicine hadn't taken effect. He hadn't started. When is this going to start? But of course meanwhile I'm riding around on this mad torrid wave of geometry and multiple colours and just epic epic visuals, which as we know, if you don't surrender and you don't relax into the experience, you'll you could just spend your entire journey doing that. Which I'm sure for some people could be quite beautiful and quite interesting, but also it's very distracting. And it was only when I finally realised hang on a minute you I'm stuck in a loop here and I just did as you say, let go and I surrendered. And then it was like
Richard Stokoe 25:33
there's a common that always stuck with me. And it's like she gives you what you need. Not what you want.
Martin O'Toole 25:37
Yeah, I think that was our friend undress. Yeah.
Richard Stokoe 25:41
So true. Because the firt the first note for me was just like a gentle intro. He was very gentle with me. And she sort of just give me a cuddle, just like, knock me down a little bit. Backup and just like primed me just a button buttered me up for night two, but
Martin O'Toole 26:00
buttered me up for note two. I love that.
Richard Stokoe 26:01
And what a night, night two was
Martin O'Toole 26:03
I recall. Recall that, Well, I was. I think most ways I was immensely fortunate with my first few Ayahuasca experiences, because as you know, I've done many journeys now. But the first one, and the second one, in fact, I had no purging. So I was fortunate to not be vomiting, which is a standard part of the process, isn't it? It's an absolutely, it's, you are essential. What is welcomed? Yeah, absolutely. It's your it's your body, removing memory is negative memory, negative trauma, as well as locked energy. And as we've discussed in a couple of the episodes previously, the concept of Cymatics we store experience in our body. And so the Ayahuasca experience is a wonderful experience to release some of that physically as much as you are doing metaphysically. And of course, mentally, yeah. Anyway, so I things I remember, I remember, I remember being welcomed by a feminine entity, which is what most people Yeah. Right. And she began to show me parts of my history. And so one of the things she did was, she presented several experiences, which were negative conflict with people. Were I'd given myself an opinion, and locked that opinion in to my psyche. So so and so forth, said this, it was their fault, or so on and so forth, did that that was their responsibility. And suddenly, I was presented with the same situation. But a 300. No, not even a 360 degree, because that's one dimensional, isn't it? A multi dimensional perspective of these events. Nice. Which is all about exactly what it's all about. But I don't know if anybody listening to this will be able to quite grasp that. Let's use an example. You and I have a Fallout, I have my perspective, you have your perspective, right. There are two dogs in the room at in muda being graceful and quiet for a change on this podcast. But let's watch what Touchwood but let's say that attea and mood his perspectives are now in the mix. Let's also say that the plants outside their perspective are in the mix, and anybody else and anything else and anything else with life or attached intrinsically to the unified field. can remember and recall,
Richard Stokoe 28:48
there's there's another metaphor in there where there's an image, when depending on how you shine a light on a 3d object, you either get a circle, a trapezium, or a rhomboid.
Martin O'Toole 28:58
Yeah. It's all about perspective. Exactly. Yeah, well, that was a it was a huge, huge and life changing lesson for me and it and it presented me with a number of dramas from my life co created dramas. Not only did I suddenly see the other person's perspective, I also saw the impermanence and futility of the whole thing. And therefore the overwhelming energy and expression that came from that was just forgiveness and love.
Richard Stokoe 29:32
Absolutely. Yeah. I think for me, it was, I think, sort of my formative part of my life, I was pretty tenacious in my career, you know, like, jack of all trades, you know, Wheeler Dealer, and everything was ego. I could sort of fit into any any social dynamic bit of a chameleon. But when you do that, you're obviously sacrificing yourself, you know, you pretend and you're acting all the time, and I thought I thought I could bullshit, anybody? Yeah. Same here and that and that was and that's what she, she focused on. It's just like, you know, I see you. I see you. I see you for you.
Martin O'Toole 30:09
Yeah, it's like,
Richard Stokoe 30:10
you don't have to be like that,
Martin O'Toole 30:12
therefore inviting you to see yourself exactly.
Richard Stokoe 30:15
And start to love myself because there was obviously a reason I was. I was I was doing Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 30:21
yeah. Well, I think it's, you're presented with the opportunity to see yourself without judgement. And that for me was an incredible lesson during my first Ayahuasca experience as well it was this. Okay, this is who you are. This is Oh, this is who you've been. This is these are some of the things you've done. But it's okay.
Richard Stokoe 30:44
Exactly. No judgement. No judgement. Yes.
Martin O'Toole 30:47
Forgive yourself. Forgive them until you until you can. Or rather if you don't forgive yourself, you can't move forward
Richard Stokoe 30:55
or you can't love yourself unless you forgive yourself. I think that was that was the lesson I got. Yeah, absolutely.
Martin O'Toole 31:00
Of course if you don't love yourself, how's anybody else expected to Yeah, exactly. Yeah, man. Well, I from there i because obviously it's as we were discussing before we started recording this the thing about these journeys is they are they are so incredibly intense you receive lesson upon lesson upon lesson information upon information upon information stacked the way I the way I saw it was like this, this entity and other I'm gonna say higher intelligences. were handing me like books stacked in both hands under my
Richard Stokoe 31:39
arms frisbee and then you said a
Martin O'Toole 31:45
bizarre thing. And this is this is gonna, this is gonna sound trippy. Pardon the pun. The bizarre thing is the moment the book was thrown at me. I'd read the book. I remembered. I'd already read the book. And I was reading the other books and remembering that I'd read them all at the same time. Cosmic thin slicing. Amazing. Yeah, astoundingly. so and so. So many people will will tell you this, folks, that if you hopefully when you do your first Ayahuasca journey, you will, you'll often feel like you're in there for 1000 years. That's not to be. That's not something to frighten you, though. Is it? Because it's because in actual fact, it's a real shame when you come out is such a beautiful also, wakening experiences. Now,
Richard Stokoe 32:41
I think I think for me, it's, I don't know if you can remember, but I think it was, I think we're just sort of slowing down. And part of the journey. It was just nice and tranquil. And we're just listening to boot from music. I think Debbie Pro was probably on, and I just started laughing. Yeah. And your brother just turned on and went welcome. I get it. I get it. And I'm in the garden. Yeah. It was just it was just this beautiful moment of just being so confused. For the first part of my life just going, I'm different. I know I'm different. I don't fit in. Doesn't feel right. There's must be more to this and having so many questions and not quite knowing. Just being confused. permantly confused. And then at that split moment, it just all made sense. It was just this beautiful release. For me. It was just like I get it. I get it now. Just how we're all connected. And just the beauty. I remember the I remember we all exploded. Yeah, it was it was a beautiful moment. The
33:38
other two were especially the cosmic imp was was also welcoming
Richard Stokoe 33:43
Bienvenue Welcome on.
Martin O'Toole 33:46
It was it was truly it was it was the moment I think, where where and this is, you know, you can believe this or not to you. But what happened during that ceremony was that and we all spoke about this the following day. We were all laying down with our eyes closed, deepened in the journey. And we were all also together in another space. Yeah, indicating, weren't we? Yeah, absolutely. And we recounted the conversations we were having. Now. That's what they call telepathy back at the ranch. And so when he said welcome, they were very aware of what was what you were seeing a Yeah, I know. They're new. Yeah. Yeah. Because they were also seeing it, which is a truly profound. Well, that's unity consciousness, isn't it? are a small, tiny sliver of it at least
Richard Stokoe 34:42
Yeah, it was just it's lovely talking about this because I was I've sent you earlier that I sort of started thinking about it yesterday. And just really beautiful afternoon. start reflecting and just really going back and remembering what what was that Rebirth?
Martin O'Toole 34:58
Rebirth. It was a rebirth. De here. And just,
Richard Stokoe 35:01
you know, the deep connection obviously mean you've heard from it as well. Just can't put it into words,
Martin O'Toole 35:09
well, I'm trying to for apart, I know. And I realise that. So of course anybody listening, if you have significant experience working with plant medicine, you've got anything to add to this, please do, send us a message. And you can, you can email us or you can record a message which we will gladly play on the show, because this is this, the topic is not something that merely deserves a 45 minute to an hour podcast. It's, it's something, frankly, that we will return to time and time again, because certainly from my perspective, there were two things that that really changed the way I live, and my perspective on living and dying. And of course, that's the point of this podcast show. One was meditation. No, actually three things one was quitting alcohol and drugs, going sober. And I know some of you might think I'm going to minute I was a drug. No, it's not. It's a medicine. It's a natural plant medicine, in my opinion, of course, I absolutely respect anybody's truth, whatever you whatever you think about it. But of course, remember that, that there's a narrative that's played into our minds by the media and by government, when it comes to talking about psychedelics, or at least that's been the case since the 60s and 70s, where suddenly, there was a huge freedom movement, and everyone suddenly said, Hang on a minute conscious
Richard Stokoe 36:38
started rising or whatever like that. Yeah, like that, because they'll
Martin O'Toole 36:41
stop paying tax, and they'll stop coming to their shitty jobs. Getting in debt. Exactly. But staying on the hamster wheel, which is exactly where we need them. Otherwise, we can't control them. It's safe to say actually, in in recent years, things are changing. Consciousness is rising. Nobody can stop it, the veil is thinning. And suddenly, an awful lot more of us are working with these medicines. And also with Qigong with Tai Chi with breath work with yoga with meditation. Excuse me. We are ironically adopting ancient healing methodologies.
Richard Stokoe 37:23
Don't if you can remember when coming towards the end of the journey, I was basically started like, my body was convulsing, which now I sort of realised that was trapped energy trapped trauma that's kept low down, and it was just releasing. So it's everything was like, purging out of me. But then I started doing like hand movements, some like really intricate mudras. And, you know, I've never done yoga before. The stretch, never done yoga never even looked at what a mudra was. But it knew me. And it's like, ironic that you know, this technology has been going for like 1000s and 1000s. of years. And I think it was your your brother to turn around. So you don't know Yoga. But yoga knows you.
Martin O'Toole 38:07
Wow. is right, because we were both doing it was so you and I were and they were just watching us with with love. Regarding us as we were suddenly stretching our bodies. We were doing yoga. We were doing mudras lots of different type of quite complex. Yeah, and this kind of weird Yantra type mudra ifd or now, and yeah, and we said, well, then next day was named Well, what was that all about? I don't even know yoga. Yeah, no. Well, you may not know yoga, but yoga knows you. Exactly. Yeah. Well, how did we? And that's an interesting question, isn't it. And that brings me back to the point about remembering during that whole experience as I was receiving this information, cosmic information, information about love about the universe, about our purpose, about Earth school, about our bodies, about the Earth rover, as I call it, about unity consciousness, all of these things that I really nothing I had no knowledge about, I was suddenly receiving this information and, and laughing and crying at the same time saying, I already know this. And these higher intelligence is saying yes, yes, you do. You do know all of this. You know, of course, you know, all of this. It was kind of welcome back. That was a welcome back.
Richard Stokoe 39:31
It's like the film Hook. Do you know when it forgets who he is? And then he remembers towards the end? Peter Pan? Yeah. Yeah. Same sort of thing.
Martin O'Toole 39:40
I wonder if who wrote who wrote a book. Well, who wrote Peter Pan? I should know that Lewis Carroll. Right. I wonder if Lewis Carroll did.
Richard Stokoe 39:47
Probably. Well, this is your avatar. Whoever made avatar absolutely categorically has no doubt in my mind,
Martin O'Toole 39:56
but we were there Cameron it wrote it that wasn't it. So I don't know. You He wrote and directed a shout
Richard Stokoe 40:01
sout to James Cameron. Yeah, they got bigger. What was the world called?
Martin O'Toole 40:07
Oh, the planet in that movie? I can't remember why
Richard Stokoe 40:10
I was seen Aye wah. Yeah, it was a tree and the fluorescent in the fluorescent
Martin O'Toole 40:15
and the mycelial network. Yeah, Avatar, the nature is is completely connected. And of course, the indigenous people on that planet are aware of that on a whole other level, which we suddenly as a, as a species have completely and utterly depressingly forgotten,
Richard Stokoe 40:34
that that was actually coming back to it. That was that was the message I got from other it's like, you've got to help heal the world. And, you know, and live, ultimately, I think, since since our session, I stopped drinking alcohol and an eating meat. Yeah, because of that, and, and just living a lot more self sustainable life and peace, loving life. And love, you know, everything was just based around love. Love is the highest frequency in the universe.
Martin O'Toole 41:01
Yeah. And there's no doubt about it. When you finish a wonderful Ayahuasca journey, everybody is vibrating high. Yeah, as you so much love in this space, I that one of the many messages I received that day was or that night rather, was about my body. And for anyone who knows me or anyone who's listened to a few of these episodes, as you know, I was an alcoholic and a cocaine addict for many years. And there that sort of be that sort of behaviour brings with it an awful lot of baggage, because of course, there is cause and effect. So I was constantly being seriously injured, or seriously injuring myself, or seriously injuring others. Back in the day when I was a young human. So I had I went into that with a torn meniscus in my knee and just had my second day surgery. No, my first day surgery I didn't know. I think I'd had an eye lens removed from my eyeball. So because I was blind,
Richard Stokoe 42:07
because I will stop talking as well. We could see some like bright lights working on your eye. I could see that.
Martin O'Toole 42:14
Yeah, so could I a thermal surgery, that's what they call it a theory or surgery. And so I was receiving this energetic work to my eye and to my knee and to my shoulder at the same time. And essentially the message was, dude, you got to start taking care of the earth rover. Otherwise, you know, you're not going to be around worth rover. I'm not going to be around for many more of these incredible journey. So yeah, Wales's trousers. That was an unforgettable experience.
Richard Stokoe 42:47
It was just just to be finished on that. The second day. The second journey was the work. Yeah. And the real deep dive for a while. I purged a lot you did? What was needed 40 years of trauma. Yeah, a misbehaviour? Yeah, misbehaviour, trauma just deep rooted into my lower centres that just all came out in one night I
Martin O'Toole 43:16
got it. I remember listening to it for the majority of six hours.
Richard Stokoe 43:21
Yeah, but what an amazing feeling and I thought yeah, how good was the meal? Oh, best the best meal I've ever had. Oh, this was
Martin O'Toole 43:29
so we just for the for our listeners we did. I asked her all night which and then we slept for what maybe two or three hours and then as the sun came up, we then did an immediately did a huatchuama ceremony and that's after after this epic experience of the Ayahuasca this is the the yin and yang isn't it? It's a perfect complementary journey which which then powers you back up. So we were all outside stepping in the mud. You know, just grounding where we've been been with nature totally and utterly connected with nature in a in a way that I can't possibly explain on a podcast or even if you were sitting here listening to us chatting needless to say you are nature experience not one with nature you are utterly and entirely connected to and you
Richard Stokoe 44:26
can see the energy you can see its aura you can see all of every living all
Martin O'Toole 44:31
the grass was there the animals absolutely incredible and yeah, so after that after I think we had a short rest after that I know actually where the cleanse didn't work we all jumped in the pool and as the sun came up and and then we ultimately all had a shower and and then we went for this meal Oh my god. Food never tasted so great. Now it has to be said in this bond Villa Hotel The food is pretty awesome. Anyway, yeah, they had their own permaculture found and
Richard Stokoe 44:59
it was It's like, it was just interesting to watch the chef's go and pick their organic vegetation on mediaeval irrigated, you know, permaculture
Martin O'Toole 45:10
terraces as well, didn't they? Yeah, the best food we've ever had. So that was our first our Oscar experience, wasn't it? And we've done a few more together since and we shall know certainly do many more. In the future, my friend.
Richard Stokoe 45:26
Yeah, well, I think we were talking about this. I think it's been been a while since I've done enough stuff. I feel like I feel the Jumanji drums beaten starting to be a wee bit because yeah, invariably you do the whole the whole point of school is you forget yourself to remember yourself, right? I just started starting to forget
Martin O'Toole 45:44
that time to crack the veil open again,
Richard Stokoe 45:47
I need a coat. I need a cuddle and a kick in from the mother.
Martin O'Toole 45:50
Well, I'm going on for that. So once we've, once we've got plans to make plans to leave the country and do it in Central or South America, that's exactly what we'll be doing. But on the subject of Central and South America, of course, I then went on to do a an an incredible journey in Peru and the Amazon. And when was this I think it was pretty the year after wasn't six weeks is about six months after I remember. Yeah. And I went to the Sacred Valley in Peru and I had already met this wonderful shaman brother of ours called Andres and so as Richi he's met him too, Chileans chap.
46:33
Beautiful musician,
Martin O'Toole 46:34
beautiful musician, beautiful man. Just a huge bear of huge
Richard Stokoe 46:40
energy of love and laughter huge energy
Martin O'Toole 46:43
and everyone gravitates to this to undress because is is when he's a wizard is a shaman. Yeah. And so I went off I went to the to a retreat with him and a crew wonderful family that I another family that I made. And we spent, I think it was 10 days working with the medicines with Ayahuasca or huachuma Rape a Kambo Kambo made medicine which is a very strong, physical and psychic cleanser. Incredible for your immune system is kind of the most hardcore liver flush you can do. And that that particular trip we were fortunate because he brought his his own teacher, Piaget Pano are one of his teachers. And Piaget Pena would come from the Amazon. So this is a chap Willie. And he came with two other chaps to undress. Yeah, one of his teachers. Yeah. And he so these guys came from the from the Brazilian Amazon from the Noki Quinn tribe, also known as the Katukina. And these guys have been in that part of the world forever. They don't speak English or speak Portuguese in their own tribal dialect. Fortunately, undress speaks enough Portuguese to to be able to translate them. And so we had the most incredible and powerful shamanic experience with three of these guys who was Pano mangia who's the Cassie que no is the the leader of the village and tama and these guys were all we're all in a circle in a in a in a geodesic dome, you know, late, late around in a circle or during the medicine and these guys are all planted around and they're all squatting and they're all singing Ikaros, you know, and whistling and obviously undress eat me in the leaves. Yeah. And so after we'd finished the retreat, we went well, and Dre said, Hey, I gotta take these guys down to back to Brazil. You want to call me well? Yeah. What does that entail? Two days in the car? Yeah, okay. Well, I know I'm game and so we spent all of us piled into a van that take us to the border of Peru and Brazil and then we had to, you know, obviously is back and beyond border control as a billionaire to get a yellow fever shocks are not allowed into Brazil and then we then we hopped into a couple of into attack couple of taxis got to the nearest city, hired a car and then just you know, this road trip lasted, like for I think it was two days. epic road trip with these three, three little three little macaque wing guys in this giant chillin. Charmin listened to music talking all the way along. And then we eventually got to the village and we hung out with a village in the village for a week, and we did plant medicine with the entire village, even the kids, even the kids so that's, I would say there were I don't know, maybe, maybe 50 Maybe maybe 5060 People So when they when they when they do their Roscoe they all the entire village comes out. And the maloca has a huge circular, open sided, straw roofed, sort of meeting place. And so everyone strings, the hammocks, all the way around it. You got this this incredible network of hammocks. Yeah. And then all the kids are laying on the floor how many in the in the village? I think it was probably about 50 or 60. Or maybe maybe really made me more interested. But the villages are all along the road you know that there are different they're all still knocking when tribe but they're, they're a little villages within. And they just go on for miles and miles. So yeah, I was very fortunate to do Ayahuasca with the with the whole village and small children during the journeys. Next to me, he's an incredible and incredible energy to be around. And they also sing.
Richard Stokoe 50:58
What Collectively? Yeah, so the whole the whole village things. Actually, matter of fact, I've got a recording of that one second. Let's see if I can play that.
Martin O'Toole 51:36
waking waking up from The Matrix, red pill, seeing everything. I was still with the medicine then. So there's a bit of a ramble. But I yeah, I was just so taken by the, by the energy that I wanted to capture it. Yeah.
Richard Stokoe 51:54
That didn't sound like you know, you were somebody else. But I was still music has hairs on my arm. Like when you were there,
Martin O'Toole 52:02
and that's dancing as well. Yeah. So there's all the men, all the women working with the energy as well, like a wage are all dancing and playing together. Beautiful. It was absolutely profound. But you know, when people ask me about my Ayahuasca experience, it's always a difficult thing to talk about with certain people.
Richard Stokoe 52:23
It's kind of cliche, isn't it? Oh, yeah, I went my gap year and did Ayahuasca
Martin O'Toole 52:29
but I was having a midlife crisis. Caffeine was a bit older, I don't know. But I hasten to add, it's got nothing to do with the midlife crisis is actually one of the most profound things. And actually, the most profound thing I've ever done in my life changed my life infinitely for the better, unequivocally same here, which is I think what I was trying to ramble on in that recording, but but then there are there are those brothers and sisters out there who are just completely closed off to the idea aren't they aren't their
Richard Stokoe 53:01
time, Everyone's journey is different. Right? Yeah. I think. I think collectively, like we sort of touched on at the beginning, you know, fighting within the last five years. You think about how it's slowly sort of creeping into mainstream. It's like, marijuana is legal. Yep. You know, like, three years ago you fought years in prison for for dealing and but now it's, you know, you can legally sell it
Martin O'Toole 53:26
Yeah, and the change in same with psychedelics, Johns Hopkins started to do a lot of research a few years back. In fact, this was documented in a documentary called Magic. It's not magic mushrooms. Fantastic. Funky. Yeah. So we were talking about this with our false Stanhope. Yeah, we were talking about this with our first guest, Liam Farquhar, who's a psychedelic guide, a legal psychedelic guide. That's an interesting point right there, isn't it there are now legally certified psychedelic guides, who are licenced to work with people with PTSD, with trauma, with depression, with addiction, who are absolutely helping people overcome these issues with the use of psychedelics.
Richard Stokoe 54:15
I just think that the opposite of the lessons you get you get taught by them Ayahuasca is that, you know, we're intrinsically into wine. There's so much we're so symbiotic, all living creatures. And you know, if there is a dis ease in at a molecular level in your body, you know, there's there's a remedy outlet to cure it. Yeah, it's just sad that, you know, we are run by let's say corporations that have only got one thing on their mind, they want to move money, they want to synthesise it.
Martin O'Toole 54:44
That's the only way they can make money. And suddenly, that's exactly what's happening now with the psychedelic market. I hate to use those two words together. But finally psychedelics are being granted Have decriminalised governments. And of course, that's hand in hand with pharmaceutical firms who are finally ready to synthesise these
Richard Stokoe 55:08
modernised and exactly, probably, well,
Martin O'Toole 55:11
it is sad, I suppose the optimist in me thinks, well, at least people are now able to get access to psychedelic therapy as a treat PTSD or depression or addiction. I would, I would simply say, it's not for me anyway, the psychedelic journey is not just about popping something into your mouth. And then and then going for a ride, that it's the absolute opposite to that. A really transformative, wholesome experience is that which we've discussed, in brief,
Richard Stokoe 55:48
it just shows you what to do. But you have to do the work. Yeah, the difference, isn't it?
Martin O'Toole 55:54
Absolutely. And when you're in the ceremonial experience, you are being helped, you're being guided by people who know exactly what this medicine can do. Whether you believe it or not, this medicine is capable of doing things that we only dream off.
Richard Stokoe 56:14
I think that that was the other big lesson. She sort of gave tools to heal yourself, but then to help others. And I think it's all about sort of service to others as well. So if you can, it's like from from Ayahuasca, I've gone on a beautiful journey of like learning, Reiki, Breathworks, yoga, and then into sort of different types of, of yoga as well. And it's just, it's all an evolution of my mind, body and spirit. And I think, you know, that has an inspiration. It's like, my kids watch that. And they've started started to pick up on doing yoga moves, you know, so it's, it's kind of just inspiring. It's the ripple effect, right? Yeah. Well, you're breaking that cycle. And that's what I genuinely think that the message from she's just trying to get this this information out to as many people because she didn't think you know, we are coming to a point, a tipping point. And it's like, right, okay, we kind of need to just speed consciousness up a wee bit. I remember really helpful, I subscribed sewer, a beautiful, a beautiful world, we're we're all learning, we're all gravitating to, like we've sort of touched on, people are waking up and people are becoming more conscious. And those that don't, will just probably end up in their own little cities. And
Martin O'Toole 57:34
I think so. I think we'll, we'll wind up gravitating toward one or the other. And in simple terms, it really is about gravitating to Service to Self or Service to others. I and there's no judgement. Either way, from my perspective. My say, I'm gonna say twice on every every episode, I respect everyone's truth. Well, they do. Even even if it's not my truth, I respect that everyone should be able to make their own decision. Exactly.
Richard Stokoe 58:05
And that's, that's the other lesson, isn't it? Non judgement. We're all in different journeys. There's no bad there's no good.
Martin O'Toole 58:11
Yeah. And that was that was very much a lesson plan wisely.
Richard Stokoe 58:14
Absolutely. Yeah, I
Martin O'Toole 58:15
agree. I agree with you. For me, taking the medicine was the beginning of a journey that I'm still on. But it's a It's another beautiful and I would say far more enriching chapter or series of chapters as we go on, because it's probably what two years since we since we did our
Richard Stokoe 58:38
A lots happened in two years hey
Martin O'Toole 58:41
But But actually, with all of the madness in the world, from my perspective, anyway, the work that we did, and then I continued to do, as certainly enabled me to, to stay more grounded, to have a practice to return to, to turn to my meditation to breath work, for yoga, now to Qigong. These are all things that I would never have thought I was going to do. If you just if you and I popped out of a time machine like Bill and Ted in front of mountain and rich five years ago, said Hey, dudes
Richard Stokoe 59:19
are the last year you head off if you just sort of been I'd been living in Bali six, six years ago, I'd be like, get out of town me to like completely have three kids and living and living
Martin O'Toole 59:31
and living a wonderfully enriching life. crime free, sovereign free credit, though. You absolutely created it as did I. So yeah, funny thing. I was talking to the guys from the tribe and to undress about the medicine because you were talking about service to others there and how it led you to want to do more things for other people. Well, these guys I feel that it is their, their mission now on this earth in this time and this place to spread the word of the medicine to spread the love that comes with medicine to the world, or through the world. And I asked I asked the guys what they think would happen if the whole world didn't know your Ayahuasca journey. And I have this recording
1:00:32
1:01:00
the if this had been about the people, we can heal the planet. We can we can heal the planet altogether. Because the medicine will give us the vision about the connection with the elements and everything. You know. So the, the medicine the Apache Alonzo, or, or a ceremony era, it was the ceremony, you know, this means that the older people will be collected again, you know, with the roots of this planet, you know? Yeah,
Richard Stokoe 1:01:50
hold the power in that. Well,
Martin O'Toole 1:01:54
I believe he's right. And I believe that was partially a piano speaking in Portuguese. Thanks for bearing with us on that on and address translating, but I genuinely believe if if we could get the whole planet. And we've just proven that we can get the whole planet to do something in the same time. Yeah, too easily, sadly, so. But if we can get the whole planet to do an Ayahuasca journey at the same time? Well,
Richard Stokoe 1:02:27
could you imagine?
Martin O'Toole 1:02:28
Well, it would be healing for everyone in unison, raised frequency for everyone in unison. Observation of self harm, co created drama. It would be self forgiveness and forgiveness of others. It would just be love, wouldn't it
Richard Stokoe 1:02:55
be awful. But it's like Graham Graham Hancock said, you know, if you can imagine every world leader, you know, one of the stipulations to become a president or prime minister is you have to do 10 Ayahuasca ceremonies,
Martin O'Toole 1:03:07
I think Mr. Hancock is absolutely spot on bang on. While we're at it, they should all undergo some serious psychological profiling,
Richard Stokoe 1:03:17
kind of in a perfect world if it wasn't written by.
Martin O'Toole 1:03:19
Yeah. But then if the world was perfect, we would have nothing to learn, would we? There'll be no suffering. And without suffering, we can't learn these lessons. So Well, I think I think we're probably done today. Are we
Richard Stokoe 1:03:35
getting down? We're getting a bit of sweat on sorry about the air conditions, let's say four degrees in this country. Yeah,
Martin O'Toole 1:03:42
unfortunately, the AC gets picked up by the microphone, so I will let you off. It's, there's not a lot we can do about it. But thank you, Richard, I really appreciate you coming on.
Richard Stokoe 1:03:53
Thank you for inviting me on and being part of this wonderful journey that you're, you're creating.
Martin O'Toole 1:03:58
Thank you, bro, I hope, I hope the audience is enjoying it as well. Actually, on that note, whilst we do get the odd tidbit of feedback, this is probably the first time I'm ever going to go into ask you, you listeners, you wonderful folks at home, checking this out in the gym or driving your car or sitting at home with a with a cup of tea or coffee, whatever. Do us a huge favour. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please go and review it. Please LIKE it, please follow it, subscribe to it, share it and more importantly, bear in mind, this is just getting made with love. There's no money behind it. There's no marketing machine behind it and no production machine behind it. So this can only really take off assuming it's doing well if you tell other people about it. And as you may or may not know I've been a marketer for over 25 years, but I have this lofty ambition that this podcast might actually do well just Based on word of mouth people actually telling other people hey you know what that podcast in something resonated and you might find this interesting yada yada I don't know that's just me being an optimist but if you're enjoying how to die happy please pretty pleased with the cherry on top do review it and do tell some people about it thanks for listening to Rich and I have a little trip down memory lane
Richard Stokoe 1:05:23
yeah
Martin O'Toole 1:05:25
sha'll we go get a coconut
Richard Stokoe 1:05:26
let's do it
